icat
Gold Member
I've followed several posts on round hay bailers and the size of tractor required to run one. But what about square bailers? Anyone know what a square bailer would cost and the HP required to run it?
Square Baler for Hay?
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RichNJKubota
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
The older, smaller JD and NH balers need less power. And if you are only doing a few acres it can be done.
Rich
The older, smaller JD and NH balers need less power. And if you are only doing a few acres it can be done.
Rich
5030
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
ICat:
When it comes to bailing hay with a Kubota, you should always come to me first. I usually have the answers or I am at least close /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
A square bailer as opposed to a round baler derives its inertia from a flywheel. The flywheel provides smooth power flow for the ram as well as the knotters. Consequently, power requirements ar substantially less for a square bailer over a rounder.
We have a 335 JD that we ran with my old 3710. The only time it really worked the 3710 was when the hay got a little "tough". The 335 has a hydraulic kicker on it that's powered from a pump that runs from the flywheel too.
When a square baler states "35pto requirement" it means that you will need 35 pto for adverse conditions and maximum bailing speed. You could run the baler on 25 pto easily.
You might encounter 2 problems.
1. The tractor being light in weight, will be rocked back and forth by the plunger action of the ram in the bailing chamber.
2. Normal practice is to hitch a flat rack on the back of the bailer to load bales as the come out of the bale chute. A light tractor might have problems pulling a bailer and flat rack at the same time.
ICat:
When it comes to bailing hay with a Kubota, you should always come to me first. I usually have the answers or I am at least close /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
A square bailer as opposed to a round baler derives its inertia from a flywheel. The flywheel provides smooth power flow for the ram as well as the knotters. Consequently, power requirements ar substantially less for a square bailer over a rounder.
We have a 335 JD that we ran with my old 3710. The only time it really worked the 3710 was when the hay got a little "tough". The 335 has a hydraulic kicker on it that's powered from a pump that runs from the flywheel too.
When a square baler states "35pto requirement" it means that you will need 35 pto for adverse conditions and maximum bailing speed. You could run the baler on 25 pto easily.
You might encounter 2 problems.
1. The tractor being light in weight, will be rocked back and forth by the plunger action of the ram in the bailing chamber.
2. Normal practice is to hitch a flat rack on the back of the bailer to load bales as the come out of the bale chute. A light tractor might have problems pulling a bailer and flat rack at the same time.
5030
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
ICat:
I should probablly add that square bailers, as long as they will "bale" are worth what you can get them for.
By "bale", I mean the knotters work, and the bale chamber is in good shape as well as the bearings and drive train.
I am partial to NH, even though we have a JD too. NH was the original design. As a matter of fact, the first knotters were NH. They are copied by everyone else.
Lastly, never fool around with a knotter. Always call a service man. Knotters are very finicky and their operation is shrouded in mystery or at least the operation is so fast, that you can't follow it. We have a video made by JD on knotter operation. I have watched it numerous times, both sober and intoxicated. I still can't follow the cycle on the actual bailer. It's easier to call the serviceman to set it up.
ICat:
I should probablly add that square bailers, as long as they will "bale" are worth what you can get them for.
By "bale", I mean the knotters work, and the bale chamber is in good shape as well as the bearings and drive train.
I am partial to NH, even though we have a JD too. NH was the original design. As a matter of fact, the first knotters were NH. They are copied by everyone else.
Lastly, never fool around with a knotter. Always call a service man. Knotters are very finicky and their operation is shrouded in mystery or at least the operation is so fast, that you can't follow it. We have a video made by JD on knotter operation. I have watched it numerous times, both sober and intoxicated. I still can't follow the cycle on the actual bailer. It's easier to call the serviceman to set it up.
Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
You da man! OK, so I'm looking for an older bailer (which is probably good since it will be less expensive). Found a couple in the "under $2k" range that I might take a look at.
Like many others I suffer from the "not enough to mess with and too much to ignore" hay problem. The 10 or so acres in hay right now are not enough to entice someone to cut it for me, and too much to let die out or just lie there after I bush hog (besides - I hate seeing the good grass go to waste after I cut).
According to the local tax man, I can also get back my Ag Exemption if I add a few hay bales to the property (there are some really screwy rules going on here - but that's another subject entirely). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You da man! OK, so I'm looking for an older bailer (which is probably good since it will be less expensive). Found a couple in the "under $2k" range that I might take a look at.
Like many others I suffer from the "not enough to mess with and too much to ignore" hay problem. The 10 or so acres in hay right now are not enough to entice someone to cut it for me, and too much to let die out or just lie there after I bush hog (besides - I hate seeing the good grass go to waste after I cut).
According to the local tax man, I can also get back my Ag Exemption if I add a few hay bales to the property (there are some really screwy rules going on here - but that's another subject entirely). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
rambler
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
You are looking for a NH 68 to 271 baler or a JD 14T or 24T baler. All other brands _might_ work, might 'knot'.
Balers are _all_ about the knotters. NH & JD got it right, others got it hit or miss (on older equipment).
Baler of this vintage goes for $500-1000 in _good_ working condition. That will be the hard part for you to guess - it's all art & mirrors - hard to see if they work unless you actually bale 100+ bales. Remember, it's all about the knotters, and you can't really tell by just looking....
Square balers need 15-20 hp for themselves, and 10 hp or so to pull the tractor & baler around. You have more fun if you have 35 hp+. Live pto is really important too.
Many compact tractors are _not_ rated to pull a baler, and warrenty will not cover repairs for 2 reasons:
The baler runs off a flywheel as Darrel (sp?) mentioned. The flywheel can store as much as 50 hp, even tho it only takes 17 hp to keep it spinning. The baler itself goes from using 1 hp to using the whole 50 hp, back to 1 hp..... The lighter drivetrains of compact tractors cannont take this strain.
Also, a square baler with about 3 bales of hay in it weigh a _lot_, and you can have the tail wagging the dog. Can really be tough to safely control.
Just things to think about. For more info on old balers, the archives at www.ytmag.com will have a lot of stuff for you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
--->Paul
You are looking for a NH 68 to 271 baler or a JD 14T or 24T baler. All other brands _might_ work, might 'knot'.
Balers are _all_ about the knotters. NH & JD got it right, others got it hit or miss (on older equipment).
Baler of this vintage goes for $500-1000 in _good_ working condition. That will be the hard part for you to guess - it's all art & mirrors - hard to see if they work unless you actually bale 100+ bales. Remember, it's all about the knotters, and you can't really tell by just looking....
Square balers need 15-20 hp for themselves, and 10 hp or so to pull the tractor & baler around. You have more fun if you have 35 hp+. Live pto is really important too.
Many compact tractors are _not_ rated to pull a baler, and warrenty will not cover repairs for 2 reasons:
The baler runs off a flywheel as Darrel (sp?) mentioned. The flywheel can store as much as 50 hp, even tho it only takes 17 hp to keep it spinning. The baler itself goes from using 1 hp to using the whole 50 hp, back to 1 hp..... The lighter drivetrains of compact tractors cannont take this strain.
Also, a square baler with about 3 bales of hay in it weigh a _lot_, and you can have the tail wagging the dog. Can really be tough to safely control.
Just things to think about. For more info on old balers, the archives at www.ytmag.com will have a lot of stuff for you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
--->Paul
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
ICat:
Your 3130 would handle a 24T for instance. Just probably not with a flat rack loaded with 100 bales or so on the rear of the bailer.
Like I said, the bailer will rock your tractor a bit. Run in 4wd. You will be okay. I also presume that your field is relatively flat. I'd not want to be running up hill and especially down hill with the bailer and a wagon on back. You might get pushed to the point of losing control.
Because your tractor is HST like mine, run in L or M and set your tractor with the pto engaged at an idle. Ease the clutch in as it takes quite a bit to get the flywheel spinning. Spool it up to about an indicated 500rpm on the pto. I can't remember if you have a hydraulic or dog clutch on the pto, but it dosen't matter, just start at an idle, and bring it up.
A good static check of a knotter mechanism is to grab a needle (that's the long curved item that points vertically just behind the bale chamber) and wiggle it back and forth. A lot of side-to-side play indicates worn bushings and will equate to a mis-tie. Also, look in the side of the cam followers (the casting at the top of the knotter mechanism and observe the follower roller. If the roller is beat up pretty bad, that's a good indication of worn bushings and lack of proper greasing and will also cause a mis-tie.
A complete knotter assembly on a 24T is about $350.00. That dosen't include needles or driveline parts.
Another good indicator of how the bailer was treated is to look at the pickup. If the fingers are all bent and the reel is not aligned at the bottom (all slats in the same plane) that means the bailer was crowded or run too low and fed trash.
Most farmers I know, don't have a good maintenance program, especially with haying implements. Run it and if it breaks, then fix it and forget the grease gun.
I don't like to plug anything, but I make a bronze inserted case hardened follower roller set for JD and NH bailers. None of the pivots in the knotters are greasable, you just are able to oil them and the chaff will quickly wick any oil away so I make a set of 660 bronze bushed follower rollers. They are pretty popular around here.
ICat:
Your 3130 would handle a 24T for instance. Just probably not with a flat rack loaded with 100 bales or so on the rear of the bailer.
Like I said, the bailer will rock your tractor a bit. Run in 4wd. You will be okay. I also presume that your field is relatively flat. I'd not want to be running up hill and especially down hill with the bailer and a wagon on back. You might get pushed to the point of losing control.
Because your tractor is HST like mine, run in L or M and set your tractor with the pto engaged at an idle. Ease the clutch in as it takes quite a bit to get the flywheel spinning. Spool it up to about an indicated 500rpm on the pto. I can't remember if you have a hydraulic or dog clutch on the pto, but it dosen't matter, just start at an idle, and bring it up.
A good static check of a knotter mechanism is to grab a needle (that's the long curved item that points vertically just behind the bale chamber) and wiggle it back and forth. A lot of side-to-side play indicates worn bushings and will equate to a mis-tie. Also, look in the side of the cam followers (the casting at the top of the knotter mechanism and observe the follower roller. If the roller is beat up pretty bad, that's a good indication of worn bushings and lack of proper greasing and will also cause a mis-tie.
A complete knotter assembly on a 24T is about $350.00. That dosen't include needles or driveline parts.
Another good indicator of how the bailer was treated is to look at the pickup. If the fingers are all bent and the reel is not aligned at the bottom (all slats in the same plane) that means the bailer was crowded or run too low and fed trash.
Most farmers I know, don't have a good maintenance program, especially with haying implements. Run it and if it breaks, then fix it and forget the grease gun.
I don't like to plug anything, but I make a bronze inserted case hardened follower roller set for JD and NH bailers. None of the pivots in the knotters are greasable, you just are able to oil them and the chaff will quickly wick any oil away so I make a set of 660 bronze bushed follower rollers. They are pretty popular around here.
slowzuki
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
I'm glad this info was posted, I have only baled on 50 hp or smaller tractors. One place uses a Ford 3000 and a baler with a thrower towing a wagon.
I have never been in a tractor that didn't rock when baling, 3500 lb up to 9000 lb tractor, the plunger rocks you.
It is odd to see all the references to 70hp+ hp tractors are required. Round balers are of course a different beast.
I'm glad this info was posted, I have only baled on 50 hp or smaller tractors. One place uses a Ford 3000 and a baler with a thrower towing a wagon.
I have never been in a tractor that didn't rock when baling, 3500 lb up to 9000 lb tractor, the plunger rocks you.
It is odd to see all the references to 70hp+ hp tractors are required. Round balers are of course a different beast.
RichZ
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
A point that has already been mentioned, but I think is critical to emphasize, is unless you are extremely mechanically inclined, make sure you have a good local farm mechanic for the times your baler gives you trouble.
I admit that I am not very mechanically inclined, but I know mechanics who won't touch a blaer. They are very difficult to work on. Always keep it greased, in fact grease all the fittings before each use. That is probably one of the most important preventative maintainence tips.
I have a New Holland 273, and it's been great. I only had a problem once, and I called my farm mechanic. He came and had it fixed in a 1/2 hour. He tried to explain what he did to my friend and me, and neither of us had a clue how he did what he did.
A point that has already been mentioned, but I think is critical to emphasize, is unless you are extremely mechanically inclined, make sure you have a good local farm mechanic for the times your baler gives you trouble.
I admit that I am not very mechanically inclined, but I know mechanics who won't touch a blaer. They are very difficult to work on. Always keep it greased, in fact grease all the fittings before each use. That is probably one of the most important preventative maintainence tips.
I have a New Holland 273, and it's been great. I only had a problem once, and I called my farm mechanic. He came and had it fixed in a 1/2 hour. He tried to explain what he did to my friend and me, and neither of us had a clue how he did what he did.
Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
The other important thing is to periodically remove the debris from the knotter area. If this builds up and then gets wet, it can cause mis-ties. Shut the unit down and blow it off with air or pull / brush it out with your hands.
We never did it since we baled most every day in a commercial operation, but keeping the knotters covered or inside should help prevent problems.
NEVER BE AROUND THE KNOTTERS WHEN IT IS RUNNING. That stuff moves way too fast to see anything and it can do bad things to you before you can react!
As a kid, we baled with Allis D17s (HP unknown) and JD 24 and 224 balers, both wire tie and nylon/twine. The tractors rocked with the plunger, but it handled the baler and haywagon easily.
At one time, I had a printout of how knotters worked. I'd run a baler for 5+ years and even after studying this manual, I never did understand how they worked!
Best wishes,
Ron
The other important thing is to periodically remove the debris from the knotter area. If this builds up and then gets wet, it can cause mis-ties. Shut the unit down and blow it off with air or pull / brush it out with your hands.
We never did it since we baled most every day in a commercial operation, but keeping the knotters covered or inside should help prevent problems.
NEVER BE AROUND THE KNOTTERS WHEN IT IS RUNNING. That stuff moves way too fast to see anything and it can do bad things to you before you can react!
As a kid, we baled with Allis D17s (HP unknown) and JD 24 and 224 balers, both wire tie and nylon/twine. The tractors rocked with the plunger, but it handled the baler and haywagon easily.
At one time, I had a printout of how knotters worked. I'd run a baler for 5+ years and even after studying this manual, I never did understand how they worked!
Best wishes,
Ron
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
Slowzuki:
With round bailers you don't have a flywheel and as the bale grows inside the bale chamber, internal friction against the bailer frame grows too. That's why most rounders have the option of fire supression (I have it on my NH). After running bales for hours, the bailer frame will be hot to the touch. The only exception to that which I know of is a Klauus, which rolls a soft centered bale. The Klauus uses rollers instead of belts.
The bigger the bale, the more horsepower it takes. When bailing wheat straw rounds with my 638, to get a maximum weight bale, I have to run the tractor at WOT to maintain 540 rpm.
On a different note, our "farm car" is a Suzuki. it is slow!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Slowzuki:
With round bailers you don't have a flywheel and as the bale grows inside the bale chamber, internal friction against the bailer frame grows too. That's why most rounders have the option of fire supression (I have it on my NH). After running bales for hours, the bailer frame will be hot to the touch. The only exception to that which I know of is a Klauus, which rolls a soft centered bale. The Klauus uses rollers instead of belts.
The bigger the bale, the more horsepower it takes. When bailing wheat straw rounds with my 638, to get a maximum weight bale, I have to run the tractor at WOT to maintain 540 rpm.
On a different note, our "farm car" is a Suzuki. it is slow!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
5030
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The other important thing is to periodically remove the debris from the knotter area. If this builds up and then gets wet, it can cause mis-ties. Shut the unit down and blow it off with air or pull / brush it out with your hands.
We never did it since we baled most every day in a commercial operation, but keeping the knotters covered or inside should help prevent problems.)</font>
I have seen ad's in farm magazines for "knotter blowers". They are basically an air nozzle that's directed at the cam where the bill hooks and cutters come together. I presume they have a small mechanical compressor that runs off the flywheel somehow. We never got into that. We clean the knotters when the bailer comes to the barn at the end of the day using compressed air.
As far as keeping the knotters "inside", I don't know how you'd do that. You couldn't put a cover on them, the needles would hit it. The best maintenance is keep it greased and chaff free as much as possible.
As far as "farm mechanics", around here, you call the respective dealer and the tech comes out and does his thing. JD techs won't work on NH and visa-versa.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The other important thing is to periodically remove the debris from the knotter area. If this builds up and then gets wet, it can cause mis-ties. Shut the unit down and blow it off with air or pull / brush it out with your hands.
We never did it since we baled most every day in a commercial operation, but keeping the knotters covered or inside should help prevent problems.)</font>
I have seen ad's in farm magazines for "knotter blowers". They are basically an air nozzle that's directed at the cam where the bill hooks and cutters come together. I presume they have a small mechanical compressor that runs off the flywheel somehow. We never got into that. We clean the knotters when the bailer comes to the barn at the end of the day using compressed air.
As far as keeping the knotters "inside", I don't know how you'd do that. You couldn't put a cover on them, the needles would hit it. The best maintenance is keep it greased and chaff free as much as possible.
As far as "farm mechanics", around here, you call the respective dealer and the tech comes out and does his thing. JD techs won't work on NH and visa-versa.
Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
As far as keeping the knotters "inside", I don't know how you'd do that.
Sorry, didn't myself clear--what I meant was park it inside out of the weather or cover it up at night.
Sorry.
Ron
As far as keeping the knotters "inside", I don't know how you'd do that.
Sorry, didn't myself clear--what I meant was park it inside out of the weather or cover it up at night.
Sorry.
Ron
Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
As usual, this is the place for finding out just about anything you'd want to learn! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks for everyone's comments.
My property is pretty much flat, so I'm safe on that end. I think that once I have livestock on the grounds that I'll only keep a five acre section for hay. As such, it really would be too small to get anyone to come by and bail, hence the thought of getting a square bailer. Besides, from what I've read the square bailes are prefered by horse owners anyway.
Curious, I see mention of a hay wagon to pull behind the bailer and the extra power required to pull it. At the risk of sounding dumb, what happens to the bail if I don't have a wagon? I'm assuming it just "pops" out on the ground. Thought of course is that I could come back afterwards and just toss them into the back of a truck or a trailer. I realize the "extra" work involved, but keep in mind it's only 5 acres.
Other thing I just noticed, the L3130 HST is a bit of a porker - weighs in at 3305 pounds. Looks like the 5030's only got an additional 440 or so (non-cab model at 3745 lbs.). Of course, by the time I put my large frame on the tractor the weight difference gets a lot smaller. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
As usual, this is the place for finding out just about anything you'd want to learn! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks for everyone's comments.
My property is pretty much flat, so I'm safe on that end. I think that once I have livestock on the grounds that I'll only keep a five acre section for hay. As such, it really would be too small to get anyone to come by and bail, hence the thought of getting a square bailer. Besides, from what I've read the square bailes are prefered by horse owners anyway.
Curious, I see mention of a hay wagon to pull behind the bailer and the extra power required to pull it. At the risk of sounding dumb, what happens to the bail if I don't have a wagon? I'm assuming it just "pops" out on the ground. Thought of course is that I could come back afterwards and just toss them into the back of a truck or a trailer. I realize the "extra" work involved, but keep in mind it's only 5 acres.
Other thing I just noticed, the L3130 HST is a bit of a porker - weighs in at 3305 pounds. Looks like the 5030's only got an additional 440 or so (non-cab model at 3745 lbs.). Of course, by the time I put my large frame on the tractor the weight difference gets a lot smaller. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
cowboydoc
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
I'm assuming it just "pops" out on the ground
Yep that's what it does. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I'm assuming it just "pops" out on the ground
Yep that's what it does. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
Did some searching on the www for a JD 14T and found the following article on haying.
Haying FAQ
Loads of good info. Looks like they like the JD 14T too. Also found mention of mini round bailers used in Japan.
Agriquip
Interesting stuff, but rather pricey.
Did some searching on the www for a JD 14T and found the following article on haying.
Haying FAQ
Loads of good info. Looks like they like the JD 14T too. Also found mention of mini round bailers used in Japan.
Agriquip
Interesting stuff, but rather pricey.
Wannafish
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
My "real world" experience this year. I bought a 14T this summer. Once it was "tuned" by my J.D. dealer it has been pretty much trouble free. I baled my 15 acres this year. My neighbors found out I had a baler, now I have over 100 acres next year
.
I started out pulling it with my new J.D. 4010 = 18.5 PTO hp. This tractor is not heavy, but the baler worked fine behind it...provided I stayed where the ground is flat. Worked good going down hill too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, glad I didn't have a wagon on though. It doesn't have the power to operate and pull the baler up the large hills I have so I ended up using my big tractor for it.
Keep in mind, the 14T is was not designed to produce bales as quickly as later models. If you make your windrows 1/2 as big as you think they should be, and then go real slow while baling, I think you will be real happy with it (and it keeps you on the tractor that much longer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). This also keeps the tractor motion to a minimum. If you try to hurry it the big "F" factor will set in (frustration).
I'd suggest going to www.ytmag.com, click on Community Forums, then do a search for 14T. There is a ton of great information there also.
On a flat surface I think you could also pull a wagon behind it. NOT something you want to do with 18.5 hp though /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif, or on hills due to the lack of weight /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.
One other thing...and I can't stress this enough...buy a manual and read it through before you use the baler. Then read it again. Even though you won't understand part of it at the time, when you are up to your wrist in "knotter" you'll be amazing how quick you understand what you read. Oh yeah, and make friends with someone who knows how to work on these. The operation of the knotters is a lot like trying to understand women...kind of a lost art /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Good luck, and have fun.
My "real world" experience this year. I bought a 14T this summer. Once it was "tuned" by my J.D. dealer it has been pretty much trouble free. I baled my 15 acres this year. My neighbors found out I had a baler, now I have over 100 acres next year
.I started out pulling it with my new J.D. 4010 = 18.5 PTO hp. This tractor is not heavy, but the baler worked fine behind it...provided I stayed where the ground is flat. Worked good going down hill too /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, glad I didn't have a wagon on though. It doesn't have the power to operate and pull the baler up the large hills I have so I ended up using my big tractor for it.
Keep in mind, the 14T is was not designed to produce bales as quickly as later models. If you make your windrows 1/2 as big as you think they should be, and then go real slow while baling, I think you will be real happy with it (and it keeps you on the tractor that much longer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif). This also keeps the tractor motion to a minimum. If you try to hurry it the big "F" factor will set in (frustration).
I'd suggest going to www.ytmag.com, click on Community Forums, then do a search for 14T. There is a ton of great information there also.
On a flat surface I think you could also pull a wagon behind it. NOT something you want to do with 18.5 hp though /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif, or on hills due to the lack of weight /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.
One other thing...and I can't stress this enough...buy a manual and read it through before you use the baler. Then read it again. Even though you won't understand part of it at the time, when you are up to your wrist in "knotter" you'll be amazing how quick you understand what you read. Oh yeah, and make friends with someone who knows how to work on these. The operation of the knotters is a lot like trying to understand women...kind of a lost art /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Good luck, and have fun.
5030
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
ICat:
That's what it does, pops out on the ground. Problem with that is that you have to pick them up and STACK them on a wagon anyway. Gravity is against you all the time and they get VERY heavy after about 50 or so. Its much better to have a chute extension on the bailer to the wagon so the bailer just pushes them to the wagon so you can stack them. Of course you could get a bale thrower like NH has and JD used to have. We have one on our JD and you can turn a bale into a guided missle if you want to. 5 acres X 3 cuts is quite a few bales. I hope you realize that there's a lot more to hay than just cutting. From you posts, I presume that you have an established field. Hay fields have a definite life span. After awhile the alfalfa and timothy will be crowded out by undesirable species. Horse people want good hay, not grass so to be marketable, there is quite a bit of maintenance involved. Fertilizing, pest control, overwintering, etc. Just ask Cowboydoc. If haying was easy, everybody would do it. Believe me, it's not.
To give you some idea...
You have to apply potash, usually at the rate of 200 pounds per acre in the fall for overwintering.
In the spring, apply nitrogen + a dash of Boron to promote growth.
First cut..
Mow, crimp, rake and bale. Hope your degree days are sufficient for drydown. After first cut, fertilize and watch for pests as the days are warming up.
Second cut..
Mow, crimp, rake and bale again. Keep checking for pests and fungus infiltration.
Third cut..
Same as second, but worrying about degree days and moisture.
Fourth cut..
If you are lucky, same as third, but...You must leave the hay plant high enough so that your winter kill rate is low. If you cut late and the plants are too short, the shock of cutting coupled with cold temperatures will winter kill your field.
That's just a short overview of how it works, or don't work. I don't know about CowboyDoc, but I don't contract bale on any fields other than my own. Yoy can destroy implements in a big hurry by hitting objects (logs, metal, old wells, etc) in fields that are not your own.
Again, there is alot more than just this. many varibles come into play. Besides, the bailer is just one small part of the whole picture. You must have a mower, a rake, crimper, tedder, bailer, wagons and slave labor. There is always the moisture problem. Bailed hay will rise in moisture content after bailing. We try to bale when the moisture is around 11% measured in the windrow. Bales will typically rise to about 15%. If the bales go above 18%, you will develop a mold problem and they will get hot. Horse people don't want moldy bales. I use electronics to measure moisture plus my own instincts. The instinct part is something that's acquired by experience. A good benchmark tool is a Delmhorst Moisture tester. We have probes to measure windrows as well as bailed hay. I also use a Farmex continuous moisture tester that has a sensor mounted in the bale chamber and senses moisture about 5 times every second. The readout is in the tractor and we have sensors mounted in the round as well as the square bailer. Moisture is the number one destroyer of good hay. Then you have to have a place to store the product out of the weather. If mother nature was perfect, it would be easy. She's NOT. That's why the price of hay is what it is. It's always a CRAP-SHOOT when haying.
I have seen those little round bailers and rakes in some farm rag. Looks like something a "wannabe" farmer might buy. Look pretty useless to me. Just a toy.
ICat:
That's what it does, pops out on the ground. Problem with that is that you have to pick them up and STACK them on a wagon anyway. Gravity is against you all the time and they get VERY heavy after about 50 or so. Its much better to have a chute extension on the bailer to the wagon so the bailer just pushes them to the wagon so you can stack them. Of course you could get a bale thrower like NH has and JD used to have. We have one on our JD and you can turn a bale into a guided missle if you want to. 5 acres X 3 cuts is quite a few bales. I hope you realize that there's a lot more to hay than just cutting. From you posts, I presume that you have an established field. Hay fields have a definite life span. After awhile the alfalfa and timothy will be crowded out by undesirable species. Horse people want good hay, not grass so to be marketable, there is quite a bit of maintenance involved. Fertilizing, pest control, overwintering, etc. Just ask Cowboydoc. If haying was easy, everybody would do it. Believe me, it's not.
To give you some idea...
You have to apply potash, usually at the rate of 200 pounds per acre in the fall for overwintering.
In the spring, apply nitrogen + a dash of Boron to promote growth.
First cut..
Mow, crimp, rake and bale. Hope your degree days are sufficient for drydown. After first cut, fertilize and watch for pests as the days are warming up.
Second cut..
Mow, crimp, rake and bale again. Keep checking for pests and fungus infiltration.
Third cut..
Same as second, but worrying about degree days and moisture.
Fourth cut..
If you are lucky, same as third, but...You must leave the hay plant high enough so that your winter kill rate is low. If you cut late and the plants are too short, the shock of cutting coupled with cold temperatures will winter kill your field.
That's just a short overview of how it works, or don't work. I don't know about CowboyDoc, but I don't contract bale on any fields other than my own. Yoy can destroy implements in a big hurry by hitting objects (logs, metal, old wells, etc) in fields that are not your own.
Again, there is alot more than just this. many varibles come into play. Besides, the bailer is just one small part of the whole picture. You must have a mower, a rake, crimper, tedder, bailer, wagons and slave labor. There is always the moisture problem. Bailed hay will rise in moisture content after bailing. We try to bale when the moisture is around 11% measured in the windrow. Bales will typically rise to about 15%. If the bales go above 18%, you will develop a mold problem and they will get hot. Horse people don't want moldy bales. I use electronics to measure moisture plus my own instincts. The instinct part is something that's acquired by experience. A good benchmark tool is a Delmhorst Moisture tester. We have probes to measure windrows as well as bailed hay. I also use a Farmex continuous moisture tester that has a sensor mounted in the bale chamber and senses moisture about 5 times every second. The readout is in the tractor and we have sensors mounted in the round as well as the square bailer. Moisture is the number one destroyer of good hay. Then you have to have a place to store the product out of the weather. If mother nature was perfect, it would be easy. She's NOT. That's why the price of hay is what it is. It's always a CRAP-SHOOT when haying.
I have seen those little round bailers and rakes in some farm rag. Looks like something a "wannabe" farmer might buy. Look pretty useless to me. Just a toy.
cowboydoc
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Re: Square Bailer for Hay?
Couldn't have said it better 5030. There is so much more to raising GOOD hay than people realize. You can go out and cut grass and such when you get a chance but making good hay is an art and alot of science. Since you brought it up it's not just wham bam let's put up some hay. People think you just cut if and bale it but most weekend farmers that I see making hay I wouldn't give two cents for it. If you want good protein content and forage preservation to lock in nutrients there is about a million times more thought and process than worrying if a compact will pull a baler. I think most people would be pretty surprised how worthless their hay is if they did a nutrient analysis on it.
Couldn't have said it better 5030. There is so much more to raising GOOD hay than people realize. You can go out and cut grass and such when you get a chance but making good hay is an art and alot of science. Since you brought it up it's not just wham bam let's put up some hay. People think you just cut if and bale it but most weekend farmers that I see making hay I wouldn't give two cents for it. If you want good protein content and forage preservation to lock in nutrients there is about a million times more thought and process than worrying if a compact will pull a baler. I think most people would be pretty surprised how worthless their hay is if they did a nutrient analysis on it.
