Stand by generators

[Mechanos]

I've been looking into a whole house setup as well. What complicates my situation is the load necessary to power the house during the winter is significantly more than during the summer. Our house is 100% electric... Air source heat pump with electric resistance back-up heat, electric range, electric clothes dryer, electric water heater, etc. etc. Some things could be done to cut down on the load requirement like not using the range and dryer at the same time, but the killer is when it's real cold and the air-source heat pump won't quite cut it and the systems calls for the back-up heat. So, a generator that will handle the winter loads would be overkill for the summer loads. My first choice would probably be propane (we don't have natural gas available) due to long term storage concerns, but may go with a diesel unit depending the "deal". I've done some loose analysis and based on those, I'd need a minimum of 19kW to get through a long-term outage in the winter.

 

[turbo36]

Generac whole house generator with natural gas. Basically "set and forget".

 

[s219]

I've been looking into a whole house setup as well. What complicates my situation is the load necessary to power the house during the winter is significantly more than during the summer. Our house is 100% electric... Air source heat pump with electric resistance back-up heat, electric range, electric clothes dryer, electric water heater, etc. etc. Some things could be done to cut down on the load requirement like not using the range and dryer at the same time, but the killer is when it's real cold and the air-source heat pump won't quite cut it and the systems calls for the back-up heat. So, a generator that will handle the winter loads would be overkill for the summer loads. My first choice would probably be propane (we don't have natural gas available) due to long term storage concerns, but may go with a diesel unit depending the "deal". I've done some loose analysis and based on those, I'd need a minimum of 19kW to get through a long-term outage in the winter.

Many heat pumps and geothermal units have an "emergency heat" mode (called Em Heat on my Honeywell thermostat) that only runs the backup strip heaters and fan, and does not fire up the compressor. It's intended for cases where you might have compressor failure but still need heat. I'd probably resort to that if I was running on generator in super cold weather and didn't have available wattage for everything. It also avoids possible startup spikes from the compressor that can skew your wattage needs too high.

There's another possibility that you can turn off the strip heaters (mine are on a separate breaker) and just deal with reduced/weak heat from the heat pump, which might suffice if you turned the thermostat down a bit or if it wasn't too cold.

 

[Recoveryhill]

Interesting perspective from the Caribbean. I wonder if the preference for gasoline and diesel generators there is due to a lack of availability and higher cost of natural gas and propane in the islands? Maybe for outages of a few hours a portable is ok but in this rural area we are subject to extended power loss due to ice storms and tornados.

We all cook on Propane, no Natural Gas available, but it's delivered in what, 80 pound cylinders, and is expensive at near $100 a tank. I'm led to believe that propane engines driving a genset are hungry, or thirsty, which ever is the case. Powering a generator with propane is just not done here, it's all diesel or gasoline. They set big tanks for restaurants and such that depend on truck delivery of propane but they won't come up into the mountains to bulk refill and depending on them to even make a timely delivery of an 80# cylinder is questionable. I've cooked on charcoal (carbón) for four days waiting on the truck. With gasoline I can "help myself".

I've gone almost three weeks on my 6.5 and for me, it's no problem although obviously an auto crank whole house unit would be mo convenient? Most here wouldn't know what to do with anything convenient! As before I'd just love to have that 12 kW Kubota unit but it's a matter of having better things to do with ten grand or so.

Glad you Generac performs well and may it do so for years. My intention was not to diss whoever makes their engines or their quality, it's just that Hondas are a known quantity and dependability here is everything. Warranty...what's that?

 

[Gary Fowler]

I've been looking into a whole house setup as well. What complicates my situation is the load necessary to power the house during the winter is significantly more than during the summer. Our house is 100% electric... Air source heat pump with electric resistance back-up heat, electric range, electric clothes dryer, electric water heater, etc. etc. Some things could be done to cut down on the load requirement like not using the range and dryer at the same time, but the killer is when it's real cold and the air-source heat pump won't quite cut it and the systems calls for the back-up heat. So, a generator that will handle the winter loads would be overkill for the summer loads. My first choice would probably be propane (we don't have natural gas available) due to long term storage concerns, but may go with a diesel unit depending the "deal". I've done some loose analysis and based on those, I'd need a minimum of 19kW to get through a long-term outage in the winter.

I looked into getting a whole house system, even had a contractor come out and look at my load center. Like you, I have 100% electrical house and the Generac installer said even a 20KvA unit would not power my heating coils as they alone take 100 amps plus the load of the heat pump and he would have to drop out one set of the heat coils to run the HVAC even with a 20KVA genset. Therefore I decided that it wasn't feasible to use a whole house unit and the cost to install was over $6K + having to run on propane at $2.50 per gallon and 4.8 gallons per hour made it too expensive to even run in long outages.
Instead, I have bought a 8000 running watt portable gasoline powered genset, a propane portable heater for bare heating essentials. The genset can power just about all my other household items although I would have to disconnect one of the heating elements from the hot water heater as it takes 9000 watts with both elements.
In summer heat, I would just put my 110v AC unit in the window of one bedroom to cool that at night and muddle thru during the day. MY portable genset (which I haven't had to use yet) is supposed to run 10 hours on a tank of gas(7 gallons) so that is much cheaper than running a whole house system all the time.

 

[GrandLakeGAR]

I agree Hondas are fine engines, I have one, along with a Kawasaki, a Kohler and a couple of Briggs. They all start easy at 85 degrees but when it gets down around zero even the Honda needs help. The specs for my 20kva Generac are 1.89 GPH at half load, 2.9 GPH at full load. The load will vary a lot during a run depending on the appliances in use. When I filled my 1000 gal house tank and 500 gal generator tank last sept propane was $1.35 a gallon. Seasonal price is higher now but if there are no long power outages I won't need more until next fall. There are numerous propane dealers in my area and delivery is never a problem. Owning the tanks lets me shop for the best price. I still have a 6500 watt portable, to use for welding, air compressor, etc but I sure don't miss the hook up and general nuisance of using it for house power. My portable run time per tank is based on half load, I think that is the standard way they are all rated. Figure gasoline at $3 and the cost per kW between propane and gasoline is not too far off. As I said in my first post, I have done it both ways and for me the auto whole house set up is much better.

 

[GManBart]

Many heat pumps and geothermal units have an "emergency heat" mode (called Em Heat on my Honeywell thermostat) that only runs the backup strip heaters and fan, and does not fire up the compressor. It's intended for cases where you might have compressor failure but still need heat. I'd probably resort to that if I was running on generator in super cold weather and didn't have available wattage for everything. It also avoids possible startup spikes from the compressor that can skew your wattage needs too high.

There's another possibility that you can turn off the strip heaters (mine are on a separate breaker) and just deal with reduced/weak heat from the heat pump, which might suffice if you turned the thermostat down a bit or if it wasn't too cold.

This kind of info is what makes TBN such a valuable resource for things far beyond tractors!

 

[IXLR8]

When I filled my 1000 gal house tank and 500 gal generator tank last sept propane was $1.35 a gallon.

Gas is $3.50/gallon here, last time I looked propane was $3.85/gallon!! Home heating oil, aka diesel for generator, was $3.45/gallon. If diesel generators didn't cost 2-3x what a gas generator cost it would be a no brainer to go diesel. But I can buy a lot of gas for the price difference between a diesel and gas generator.

 

[econometrics]

Gas is $3.50/gallon here, last time I looked propane was $3.85/gallon!! Home heating oil, aka diesel for generator, was $3.45/gallon. If diesel generators didn't cost 2-3x what a gas generator cost it would be a no brainer to go diesel. But I can buy a lot of gas for the price difference between a diesel and gas generator.

Yeah, that $1.35/gal for LP is CHEAP!

I just paid $2.50/gal for my 1000 gallon tank to be filled.

 

[3930dave]

Regional availability and pricing are probably all over map, pun intended, but for you all-electric guys, I'd be pricing out a good quality wood pellet stove, and pellets.

Spreadsheet the costs - if a pellet stove would work in your house for emergency heat, then you would be able to downsize your whole house generator significantly.

I have a friend who has a very high efficiency propane furnace, but he prefers to heat with his pellet stove. He buys his pellets by the skid, to get good pricing.

Rgds, D.