Standby Generator - Diesel or NG?

[kenmac]

Wow ! Now that's an old generator !

 

[Cottonhawk]

NG is a better solution as you don't have to worry about the fuel supply for your generator. We had a outside 20kw ONAN LP generator with auto switching installed and it can support the whole house.

 

[rosietheriviter]

NG is a better solution as you don't have to worry about the fuel supply for your generator. We had a outside 20kw ONAN LP generator with auto switching installed and it can support the whole house.

To any of y'all lookin' seriously at any of the gaseous fueled genset might consider a dual or tri-fuel genset.. NG, LPG, Gasoline at the flip of a switch.

Rosie

 

[SpringHollow]

I have not read all of the posts in detail. I sell diesel, natural gas, and propane standby generators. For residential backup use, unless you live in an earthquake prone area, I would recommend natural gas. Cheaper install, they are 1800 RPM units once you get over 16 KW. In a pileline disaster, our generators (and others) are easily switchable to propane and you could always get a propane tank brought in as easily as getting diesel. However, you can not get diesel or propane brought in as easily as natural gas under normal disasters. We had an ice storm here where roads were blocked for many days by downed trees and power lines. If you needed diesel or propane, you would have not gotten in.

Ken

 

[Skyco]

In a pileline disaster, our generators (and others) are easily switchable to propane and you could always get a propane tank brought in as easily as getting diesel.

I'm curious what size propane tank is needed to support a 40kW generator. I'm not talking about volume for longevity but surface area to vaporize the fuel. For example a BBQ sized 20lb tank probably couldn't vaporize enough fuel to run a 40kw at full output I suspect.

 

[SpringHollow]

Typically, one is looking at a 500 or 1000 gallon tank. Much bigger than a bbq grill 20 lb tank.

Ken

 

[Skyco]

Ahem If you can't get diesel delivered in a disaster do you really think someone would deliver and fill a 500 to 1000 gallon tank....weighing well over 1000 lbs- empty

 

[SpringHollow]

Ahem If you can't get diesel delivered in a disaster do you really think someone would deliver and fill a 500 to 1000 gallon tank....weighing well over 1000 lbs- empty

What I said was, if you could get diesel, you could get propane. But in most instances, you will have natural gas (pipelines are not usually affected by ice storms, etc.).

In non-earthquake zones, natural gas often makes the most sense.

Ken

 

[Skyco]

Ok. Getting back to what I said earlier in the thread one can haul their own diesel in 5 gallon cans if need be but one can't haul their own LP or NG

Actually there are diesel engines that can be converted to run on compressed natural gas as well but I'm not sure anyone has one that is readily switchable between the two fuels. That would be the ticket, run on NG with a fallback to diesel if NG is lost.

CNG Engine and Diesel Engine Conversion

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I used the calculator suggested in a previous post and it recommended a 30KW generator but it didn't factor in some critical issues such as we have over 12,000 square feet of glass. The glass panels are all gas filled sealed units but there is still a considerable heat loss from them. So I think a 40KW genset is about right. However before I make any commitment, I will have an electrician check out exactly what I need.

Thanks agian for all the input.

This 12,000 square feet of glass in a house has me baffled. Do you live in an 80,000 square foot house?

 

[RonMar]

He must if he needs a 40KW genset Actually the ammount of glass dosn't really effect how much peak load he has, it just means that those peak loads involved with the heating and cooling run longer to make up for the energy lost out thru those windows. So he will burn more fuel keeping the temp at a particular level, than an equally sized structure with less glass.

I don't think this is your typical household. IMO I think he needs an actual-use energy study to properly size his generator. Then again, when you are talking about the money involved with even owning a structure this size, perhaps the cost difference between installing and operating a 20KW set vis a 40KW set might not even be worth the thought.

 

[RobJ]

The nat gas never down. Most nat gas pumping stations (around here ) have back up power

Because their backups run on NG!!

 

[Highbeam]

This 12,000 square feet of glass in a house has me baffled. Do you live in an 80,000 square foot house?

Lets just say floor to ceiling windows in a 10 foot tall single story room. That's 1200 feet of perimeter wall. My typical little 1700 SF home has about 180 LF of exterior wall. Not your cookie cutter suburban home. I think maybe a zero was dropped somewhere.

I have been fascinated with the listeroids for a long time but don't have the machining knowledge or tools needed to get one ready for operation.

I have lived through long term power outages with an oversized generator. 11HP gas engine screaming at 3600 rpm and consuming 1/2 gallon of fuel per hour to run a minimal load. Be careful not to oversize for the sake of fuel consumption and for health of the engine since diesels need to be worked to stay healthy.

 

[RobJ]

I perfer liquid cooled as opposed to air cooled

Curious as to how come? On a standby unit just less to go wrong or maintenance to keep up with. Biggest air cooled diesel I worked on was a V-12. Not a problem.


Just to keep in mind here you don't to run a standby gen 24/7. Especially in the south. The cold usually doesn't last that long so there is just some cooking and TV!!

 

[Skyco]

In the south you also have to worry about hurricanes! After Hugo I hauled diesel in 5 gallon cans out to a 40kW for 19 days straight It was using around 10 gallons a day. Many homes were without power even longer than that. Mine has never been out more than 6 hours or so. I am on a well and that is my biggest problem, I can do without heat or cooling for awhile but I gotta have water

 

[Red55]

Ronmar- That Lister is really neat Kinda makes you want to run it just to listen to it and it is amazing how easy it starts. Best location for infor was ebay theres one for sale but out of my price range. Bought one of those big box Powermate Coleman 5k for a third of the cost of just the Lister engine. Glad I bought before I saw your post. Shipping alone was almost as much as I paid -Ed

 

[MikePA]

Ok. Getting back to what I said earlier in the thread one can haul their own diesel in 5 gallon cans if need be but one can't haul their own LP or NG

The point everyone else is making that except after an earthquake, there'd be no need to 'haul NG'.

 

[hwp]

This 12,000 square feet of glass in a house has me baffled. Do you live in an 80,000 square foot house?

Oops! too many zeros - 1200 square feet (50 units each 4ft x 6ft) of sealed units is a better number. The house is about 3000 square feet plus basement, all heated. I know that heat loss is not what mattters but my point was that when the temp is -20C and the wind is blowing at 100 km/h I need both FA furnaces running flat out. I am going to have my electrician come over and give me a better idea of how much generator capacity I should instal. After reading the various comments here I am now thinking a 20KW unit will be sufficient.

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

 

[Skyco]

The point everyone else is making that except after an earthquake, there'd be no need to 'haul NG'.

Well yeah an earthquake could disable the NG system. But- you knew there would be a but right?- terrorism or as I previously mentioned rotating shutdowns of the NG could cause an outage too. Heck there have been several times in my area that backhoes or other digging equipment have disabled a pipeline, sometimes resulting in quite large conflagrations

The point I'm making is I tend not to depend on others for my welfare. I don't trust the pipeline companies or the electric companies, which in my area are the same entity, to always be 100% reliable. Did I mention I used to work for them Yeah they are pretty good, but not infallable by any means.

 

[RobJ]

terrorism or as I previously mentioned rotating shutdowns of the NG could cause an outage too.

Never heard of rolling shutdown of NG pipelines. If there is no break then there is no need for a shutdown. Plenty of reserves comming into the pipeline. And with the pipeline underground, not many problems to deal with like power lines.

The point I'm making is I tend not to depend on others for my welfare. I don't trust the pipeline companies or the electric companies, which in my area are the same entity, to always be 100% reliable. Did I mention I used to work for them Yeah they are pretty good, but not infallable by any means.

Sounds like a conspiracy!!