Start engine with PTO engaged

[MX Dad]

Honestly, I cant say for sure I had the clutch pushed all the way in. I thought I did but I guarantee I will be watching it close next time. If I had it here, I would check tomorrow but I dont have it with me. I'll be with it this weekend though.

 

[k0ua]

Honestly, I cant say for sure I had the clutch pushed all the way in. I thought I did but I guarantee I will be watching it close next time. If I had it here, I would check tomorrow but I dont have it with me. I'll be with it this weekend though.

Take a couple of open end wrenches with you and the owners manual and do the clutch adjustment while you are up there.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

IF you keep on starting it with the pto in gear, with a pto powered tool on the pto, you will be buying a new starter too...

It puts a LOT of extra load on the starter when you do that.

SR

 

[MX Dad]

Will do, luckily I have the owners manual. It would be great if it was user error. Thats usually the cheapest fix (unless such error created other issues) which I dont think is the case with this one.

 

[MX Dad]

Hhhmm, good point on the starter, didnt even think about that one. Either way, I will get the clutch working as it should. Not for the maiming and killing potential as stated earlier, I just know it will eat on me until I get it right.

 

[Green Power]

I do not see a problem with what you are doing.

 

[TJP89]

Honestly, I cant say for sure I had the clutch pushed all the way in. I thought I did but I guarantee I will be watching it close next time. If I had it here, I would check tomorrow but I dont have it with me. I'll be with it this weekend though.

Just mash down as hard as you can on the clutch, if it won't go any further, you have it down all the way, or it's out of adjustment or, as DK35Vince said, it may be stuck. That's an idea I hadn't thought of, not sure of the structure of the clutch if that's even possible, but certainly should be considered. If none of the above, then it is a bigger problem internally. Tractor splitting time!

 

[JoelD]

I have similar problem. Clutch in all the way and grinding. Start with clutch engaged after I've engages lever for pto and I'm off and running

With pto lever engaged and snowblower under load when I push clutch in all the way the blower will stop spinning

I need to adjust pto clutch

I've been through owner's and service manual and instructions are not all that clear

Any advice on adjusting the pto stage of clutch is greatly appreciated

Joel

 

[buickanddeere]

I do not see a problem with what you are doing.

Try that statement in court .

 

[JoelD]

Tough to argue that bypassing anything to do with the pto is a good thing

Pto is most dangerous part of a tractor in my opinion

I get nervous hooking stuff up even when engine is off!

Joel

 

[MX Dad]

I agree that bypassing any safety features is not a good idea, but, I also dont see this one as bad as previously mentioned. I treat the FM with the same respect with or without the clutch stopping it. When I finish mowing, I simply disengage the PTO and by time I get to the parking area, it has stopped, or at least I dont hear it spinning anymore.

I really didnt expect the crazy turns this thread has taken, but still good info.

 

[HillStreet]

MX Dad,

Do not underestimate the danger imposed by a non-functioning safety switch or PTO that engages when the tractor starts. I would get it fixed.

 

[MX Dad]

Agreed. And I will get it fixed, it would drive me crazy knowing its not right. Also, I think I know where the difference of opinions are coming from. The FM is the only PTO powered implement I have at this point. The tractor is used for mowing only and the FM stays hooked up all the time. But I know I will be getting other PTO rigs in the future so I do understand everybody's concern. That is where the danger really starts in my newbie opinion. For example a post hole digger. I could see that being a problem.

Rest assured, I will put that clutch to the floor next time to make sure its not operator error. Who knows, maybe I was lazy and just not pushing clutch in far enough. Thats my hope anyway.

 

[Xfaxman]

------------

Rest assured, I will put that clutch to the floor next time to make sure its not operator error. Who knows, maybe I was lazy and just not pushing clutch in far enough. Thats my hope anyway.

Not "lazy" if you never have used a two stage clutch. When depressed it will move and come against higher resistance, this stops tractor motion but keeps the PTO engaged. Push harder and farther and it will disengage the PTO, if adjusted correctly.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Pto is most dangerous part of a tractor in my opinion
I get nervous hooking stuff up even when engine is off!
Joel

Dang! IF hooking up a pto with the tractor "shut off" makes you that nervous, perhaps operating a tractor isn't for you!

OR you don't understand how the pto works??

SR

 

[JoelD]

sawyer Rob, I was merely making a point that PTO's are dangerous. Responsible for killing people. I own BH, I've owned, for personal use, Dozers, crawler loader, dump truck, and many other highly dangerous machines and tools including chainsaws and the like. I weld, I can go on and on. However, I stand by my words that PTO is likely the most dangerous element of a tractor. The fear of hooking up when not running was primarily tongue and cheek, however, I've turned my fingers (more than once) through the universal joint of the PTO shaft, by not holding firmly enough with fingers too close to the universal joint not fun. My point was and is, anyone who takes a PTO lightly is asking for trouble. I'm certain you agree.

I understand intimately how a clutch works (replaced them), and how a PTO works, both electric clutch and mechanical clutch variety.

With that said, is there anyone with advice on how to adjust the PTO clutch pack portion of my two stage clutch, not worked on a two stage before. I've got owner's and service manual, neither are of much help, they spell out play in peddle but not much else. I need to adjust mine, I've got enough drag fully depressed that I can not engage implement.

Thanks,
Joel

 

[MX Dad]

I'd like to hear from those that have adjusted a 2 stage clutch as well. Not the first time hearing the manual isnt much help. If its like adjusting a clutch on a vehicle/pickup, I got that part. Curious if its similar.

 

[TJP89]

Try that statement in court .

Exactly, with common sense, theoretically there should be nothing wrong. But, no plans on having an accident, and a nonfunctional PTO clutch just makes one more likely. You could shut off the tractor with the PTO on, or someone could knock the PTO into on, then you start the tractor, PTO comes on unexpectedly, seriously injures someone standing too close because the PTO was supposed to be off. I ALWAYs make sure the PTO is OFF before starting, and also turn it OFF before stopping the engine. If you are in the habit of starting with the PTO on, there goes a very important safety factor. While not guaranteed to cause harm, it certainly increases the likelihood.

Before starting, I always make sure the hydraulics are set down (3PTH lever down, loader down). Because I don't want the implement to have leaked down a little, the pump comes on, brings the implement where the control is set, moving the implement in possibly an unexpected and harmful way. Treat the tractor with respect. No one ever died of being too careful.

 

[ritcheyvs]

You can/should adjust the external clutch linkage IAW the manual. The free-play is the main part. If there is too much free play there won't be enough stroke to fully disengage both clutches.

If the free play and stop are correct and the PTO clutch still doesn't release the clutch disk may just be frozen to the pressure plate or one of the internal (inside the clutch housing) adjustments could be messed up. The bad news is that (as far as I know) you need to split the tractor fix those internal adjustments.

Here's a cross section of the dual clutch:

The lever on the cross shaft pushes the sleeve forward so the throw-out bearing pushes against three (only one shown at bottom of clutch pack) levers. These levers pull the drive pressure plate (#1) aft to release the drive clutch disk. Each of these levers has an adjustment screw, which could be mis-adjusted. More likely, the bolts (#3 in diagram) that connect the pressure plates (#1 and #2) could be out of adjustment. The release lever mechanism only moves the aft (drive) pressure plate but (after taking up the slack) those bolts (#3) pull the forward (PTO) pressure plate to release the PTO clutch disk.

 

[JoelD]

Thanks my fear is that my adjustment may need to be internal as my drive free play seems to be right on based on feel will measure this weekend

I guess I can adjust to get some more throw at the bottom of pedal stroke and maybe that will do the trick as I don't think I'm hugely off as under a bit of load the implement will stop spinning with clutch fully depressed

Joel