Starter solenoid troubleshooting

[Scotty Dive]

Just want to make sure I am testing my troubles correctly. Was getting clicking at the starter but no start. Battery fully charged. Bridged the two terminals and can force it to start. Took a jumper from the positive terminal to the top post (wire from ignition) and no joy just clicking.

Leads me to believe it's just the solenoid that needs replacing. Agree?

 

[sea2summit]

Pretty easy to test the solenoid directly if it’s not part of the starter, that’s what I’d recommend. A lot of times they are fairly inexpensive and having a spare on hand is worth the $30-50.

 

[Roadworthy]

See how much voltage you're getting to the solenoid from the key switch. Sometimes the voltage drop is too great to activate it reliably. You may need to install a small relay activated by the ignition switch with the main part fed from an added fused lead from the battery.

 

[flyerdan]

The solenoid has a couple of square head copper bolts the the bakelite end cap that the battery terminals connect to; they will get eroded and the whole inside will gum up with carbon from all the arcing. I had one doing that, I carefully tapped out the bolts, cleaned everything up with a wire wheel and installed the bolts so the uneroded part of the head faced inward. Works like a new one.

 

[ponytug]

What is your battery voltage? Is it 12.7 or better?

It probably may also be worth your while to clean the battery connections and the negative ground as well the connections at the solenoid. I've had more than a few occasions where the solenoid was fine, but the surfaces of the other cables were just too oxidized from exposure. It doesn't take much resistance to slow down a starter.

Good luck!

All the best,

Peter

 

[winston1]

Just want to make sure I am testing my troubles correctly. Was getting clicking at the starter but no start. Battery fully charged. Bridged the two terminals and can force it to start. Took a jumper from the positive terminal to the top post (wire from ignition) and no joy just clicking.

Leads me to believe it's just the solenoid that needs replacing. Agree?

I agree.

 

[Scotty Dive]

Thanks all...

Can't believe Hoye charges $26 shipping on a small $50 part.....yikes!

 

[Barry 1]

Southern farm equipment on EBAY -$48.95 free shipping ! 4mm bolts

 

[Jims1025R]

Good advice above. Yes, external solenoids do get pitted contacts, and make poor connection. When they make a poor connection, they arc more, and pit more. If you are able to take it apart and clean up the pitting, great. Though some solenoids do not lend themselves to disassembly - replace. Starter motors with internal solenoids are not quite so simple, though very disassembleable.

Note that in some [older] installations, where the chassis system as 12 volts, the starter solenoid was a 6 volt, so it slams in hard to make good contact. Ideally, it was not energized long, so it would de-energze before it got too hot. I'm not saying that you should change from 12V to 6V, but some farm vehicles were made that way.

Also note that an engaged starter motor can pull a weak batter voltage way down. Indeed, if the solenoid can handle it, a 12V battery with one shorted cell, might still start the engine (ask me how I know!). So check your voltage again with the starter load on the battery. If you see it down around 9 volts, it's time for a new battery. Keep a spare solenoid in stock in any case!

 

[Williy]

Here's something for you to look at!

willy

 

[Scotty Dive]

Southern farm equipment on EBAY -$48.95 free shipping ! 4mm bolts

Good call. Thanks!

 

[Scotty Dive]

I'll order one up and then see if I can this original one to work as a spare. I miss the days of having a local auto electric shop near by

 

[California]

Another altenative - a new replica starter from Ebay would be about $100. Rare Electrical - Ebay or Amazon - is one good quality brand.

 

[Scotty Dive]

Another altenative - a new replica starter from Ebay would be about $100. Rare Electrical - Ebay or Amazon - is one good quality brand.

I have not removed the starter but believe it has 11 teeth on the starting gear and those from rare electric have 9

 

[winston1]

I have not removed the starter but believe it has 11 teeth on the starting gear and those from rare electric have 9

I am probably wrong which would not be a surprise, however, I think the 2020 starter may have 15 teeth. https://www.amazon.com/Compatible-Replacement-121120-77010-121370-77020-124250-77012/dp/B003TY1D1E/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ODROLKY6EQ8W&keywords=124250-77012&qid=1693494832&s=automotive&sprefix=124250-77012,automotive,117&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

 

[California]

Yes, some research is needed before buying the starter to get the perfect match.

For my YM240 I bought a 2 kw starter to replace the bad 1.4, Same dimensions, teeth, price. While I always use the compression release to get the oil pressure up before firing, that isn't needed to start it. I expect the faster cranking will still start it after the tractor eventually begins to show its age.

 

[ponytug]

Yes, some research is needed before buying the starter to get the perfect match.

For my YM240 I bought a 2 kw starter to replace the bad 1.4, Same dimensions, teeth, price. While I always use the compression release to get the oil pressure up before firing, that isn't needed to start it. I expect the faster cranking will still start it after the tractor eventually begins to show its age.

I would pull the starter, and try to find a part number and count the teeth. Starters are such a commodity item, that I would be tempted to take your starter down to your local PepBoys/ Autozone / whatever, and put it on the counter and have a chat with the folks there. I suspect that they will be able to find a replacement quickly

Generally, since more kW is more HP, it is not necessarily any faster cranking, but certainly better ability to turn over the engine despite cold oil, and full compression.

I replaced my Deutz starter (2.3kW?) with a 4kW starter, and it definitely makes starting easier/better/quicker, even if it isn't turning over any faster. So, count me in on the "go big on kW" when replacing a starter especially on diesels, if you have the option.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Scotty Dive]

Can an existing starter be rebuilt from say 2.4kw to 4kw?

 

[2manyrocks]

I don't know the answer. My guess would be there is only so much room in the starter casing for the winding .... so no?

I've had trouble with my YM solenoid sticking from time to time. You might takes yours apart and see if cleaning it helps your issue. My experience is it helps for a while, but then the issue repeats itself.

So if California says there's an inexpensive starter, you might just skip the attempts at cleaning and go straight to a new starter if you can find one at a reasonable price.

 

[ponytug]

Can an existing starter be rebuilt from say 2.4kw to 4kw?

Like @2manyrocks, I suspect that there is only so much room, but again, I would go down to your local autoparts place and have a chat. Before you go down, I would make a mental note of where there are mechanical items that might get close to a slightly larger / differently configured version of yours (e.g. the solenoid location is slightly different on an alternative. There is probably a direction it doesn't matter, or is even better, and one that it does.)

That's how I found I could upgrade my Deutz starter power for less money than the cost of a knockoff of the 2.3kW version of the original. Often, there is a high volume starter that matches your bolt pattern, direction of rotation, and # of teeth for less money, and perhaps better performance. On the Deutz, the Bosch OEM solenoid is widely known to be very very finicky about voltage, so I was happy not to put it back in.

Good luck,

Peter