Starting a tractor in extreme cold temperatures

[detter]

Yes, let the engine heat up and stabilize at a warmer temperature for longer. I'll preheat mine for a day before running it, and if in doubt, I just leave ot plugged in until next time. Though I hate to waste electricity, it's still less costly than replacing a starter motor!

Just a word of caution here, unless the wx is really cold, leaving the coolant heater plugged in all the time can evaporate the coolant. Not sure how it happened, but I guess I had been leaving it plugged in all winter between plowing. I also use a magnetic oil pan heater and a battery tender. So I never had a problem starting my 1429V M/F. I discovered the low coolant when my water pump seized from no coolant. My Bad.. Here on the North East coast of Canada this past week-end was the worst storm in 4 years. For the last four years I didn't use my rear blower, so this year I left it packed away in the tractor shed, 100 feet away and impossible to reach with 3 - 4 feet of drifted packed snow.

 

[chinawall]

So for two weekends in a row, I was unable to start the tractor with temperature around -35C. Had to wait for the temperature to be a 'mild' -20C for it to start.

I have a 300W heater on the cooling line and installed last weekend a battery tender. The heater is turned on for about two to three hours prior to the attempts at starting it. The tender stays 24/7.

What I do is 4 cycles of 8 seconds glow plug and try to start it. At first, because of the battery tender, it turns pretty good but fails to start. Grey smoke comes out but that's it. I do a few more cycles of the glow plugs and it still fails to start. I crank for about 5 seconds each time. After about 5 or 6 attempts, battery is having difficulty turning the engine so I stop and let the temperature warm up. At -20C, after about 3 cycles of the glow plugs, the engine fires no problem.

What's the trick to start a diesel engine in such extreme temperatures?

Thanks

 

[chinawall]

The immersion heater for the Kioti is a 400 watt unit and you have to use a spacer sleeve so the element does not contact the block. Kats has the kit. I run 15-40 in mine and have no starting issues until below zero then I plug it in. Use a 5w-40 syn for temp extremes and a stick on heat pad for the oil pan. They are flexible silicone and will form to the bottom of the pan and attach with silicone adhesive. OR just stick a 500w halogen under the pan for 30 min or so if it is really cold. You normally don't need a battery heater until you see sub -30F below. I have had all of my diesel trucks start unaided at 30 below as that is not uncommon at the cabins in Ontario [when we could actually get there] with 5w-40 and good batteries. CJ
Oh, and I did replace the glow plugs at 1200 hours as I had 2 going bad on the ding dong diesel!

if the forecast is -20 or lower, I attach my battery charger over night. I was plugging into the blockheater but it failed. (any thoughts anyone?)

 

[chinawall]

I connect my battery charger if the forecast is -20 or lower.
My block heater wouldn’t do job. Don’t know why.

 

[doneill127]

Doesn’t a block heater, and a coolant heater in the lower radiator hose do the same thing. They both heat the coolant which flows through the system by convection. Big difference I think is block heaters tend to be higher watts.

 

[7Jetboy]

"I have a 300W heater on the cooling line.....".
I don't know what you mean by having a heater in a cooling line.
The heater should be in the block to warm the coolant in the block and the walls of the cylinders. It will heat the cylinder walls and reduce the oil viscosity locally to make cranking the engine easier. It will also help start the combustion process by warming the walls of the cylinder. I would talk to the dealer's parts department and see if they have one for your tractor. Most OEM's have a block heater for this purpose and since you are up in Canada where cold weather is the norm, your tractor should have come equipped with one.

I agree. My heater is in the engine block, I use synthetic oil just for this reason too. And, I've never had an issue starting my Kubota B7800 in the extreme cold. I really believe that this combination is key!!

 

[JWR]

I'm retired and have no duties that require starting my tractor in such cold weather. Besides - when it's that cold - I don't want to be out in the cold either.

However - contrary to my better judgement - I've started my M6040 a couple times with temps down as low as -20F. I ALWAYS have a battery tender hooked up in the winter. Nothing else.

The tractor will fire right up. It coughs, grunts, blows smoke for a few seconds - then smooths out and runs fine. I use PS white jug in my diesel fuel - year round.

If I had animals that required daily maintenance -
- battery tender
- lower radiator hose tank heater
- cabbed tractor

This would be a more economical alternative to a heated building/barn.

JMHO ......

Disagree. If you REALLY need to operate equipment at minus 35 C (30 below F) then for gawd sake house it in a building of some kind. In that weather at least a minimal building is an essential cost of doing business.

Agree battery tender is good, hose heater that pumps a little spurt of hot water thru the cooling system every 30 seconds or so will do HUGE wonders for your problem. Recommend 1000W or 1200W if can find one. Those water circulating heaters warm the entire engine block, the heads, everything. That alone should make it easy to start if you have fuel that has not gelled (50% kerosene for sure in your location).

Is it a cab model ?

 

[twinotterpilot]

I live just outside of Ottawa, Ontario. We've just gone thru a bunch of nights with temps down to -25 to -30C plus wind chill. I do keep my TN-75 in a unheated building, but it does have a block heater with a Wi-Fi plug. I generally turn it on two to three hours before I need it. A reasonably new battery, with low 5W synthetic oil. Very seldom use the glow plug, and haven't had any issues. I also let it sit and idle after a start to hopefully get the hydraulics a little warmer. The viscosity of the fluid in the lines has me more concerned with either blowing seals or other problems. I run a front end loader with bucket, and a 7-foot snowblower on the back. This is the first year in almost 15 that I put the blower on in January.

 

[JWR]

Doesn’t a block heater, and a coolant heater in the lower radiator hose do the same thing. They both heat the coolant which flows through the system by convection. Big difference I think is block heaters tend to be higher watts.

No, a good coolant heater pulses coolant through the engine block, heads, radiator and back again. A 1000 watt unit will make virtually any engine easy to start in an hour or two at most. The block plug type works BUT fails to circulate other than by convection. They don't tend to be any wattage -- they are what wattage you buy them as.

 

[Russ5160]

So for two weekends in a row, I was unable to start the tractor with temperature around -35C. Had to wait for the temperature to be a 'mild' -20C for it to start.

I have a 300W heater on the cooling line and installed last weekend a battery tender. The heater is turned on for about two to three hours prior to the attempts at starting it. The tender stays 24/7.

What I do is 4 cycles of 8 seconds glow plug and try to start it. At first, because of the battery tender, it turns pretty good but fails to start. Grey smoke comes out but that's it. I do a few more cycles of the glow plugs and it still fails to start. I crank for about 5 seconds each time. After about 5 or 6 attempts, battery is having difficulty turning the engine so I stop and let the temperature warm up. At -20C, after about 3 cycles of the glow plugs, the engine fires no problem.

What's the trick to start a diesel engine in such extreme temperatures?

Thanks

 

[the old grind]

If temp is above freezing and wind chill is -20F water still won't freeze. WC only affects what's already warmer than ambient temps, but believe what you want to.

Convection to circulate coolant through both engine and block requires that the thermostat is open. Either type heater warms coolant in whichever it's installed in, not both unless it is, but believe what you want to.

 

[Russ5160]

I live just outside of Ottawa, Ontario. We've just gone thru a bunch of nights with temps down to -25 to -30C plus wind chill. I do keep my TN-75 in a unheated building, but it does have a block heater with a Wi-Fi plug. I generally turn it on two to three hours before I need it. A reasonably new battery, with low 5W synthetic oil. Very seldom use the glow plug, and haven't had any issues. I also let it sit and idle after a start to hopefully get the hydraulics a little warmer. The viscosity of the fluid in the lines has me more concerned with either blowing seals or other problems. I run a front end loader with bucket, and a 7-foot snowblower on the back. This is the first year in almost 15 that I put the blower on in January.

Try removing the air filter cover. Take a propane torch and lite it. Turn the engine over and while engine is turning over, put the torch around the intake. Sucking in warmer air with help starting.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Try removing the air filter cover. Take a propane torch and lite it. Turn the engine over and while engine is turning over, put the torch around the intake. Sucking in warmer air with help starting.

Good Lord.

Don't do this. Ever.

He said he has no problems starting his engine (twinotterpilot). Why on earth would you have him set his tractor on fire?!

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Doesn’t a block heater, and a coolant heater in the lower radiator hose do the same thing. They both heat the coolant which flows through the system by convection. Big difference I think is block heaters tend to be higher watts.

No.

Not even close. The "heater" that you install in your lower radiator hose will NOT circulate ANY coolant. It is a closed system. There is no circulation until you start the engine and the water pump starts circulating coolant through the system.

A block heater heats the coolant that's sitting stationary in the block. That warms the block. That is what you're after. A warm engine block, and some of that heat does transfer to the cylinder head through the castings.

A radiator hose heater only heats the coolant that is sitting stationary inside the rubber radiator hose. The only way to circulate that warm coolant is to crank the engine, which will circulate the warm coolant a little bit (depending on if or how much "bypass" is plumbed into your coolant system, because remember, your thermostat is CLOSED, so only the small bypass passage (if you have one) will flow any coolant at the far end of the cooling system). So the warm coolant in the hose is replaced with -35 F coolant that came out of the radiator in about 5 seconds and you stop cranking and start the whole process over again of heating the cold coolant sitting in the hose again.

Not quite "worthless" but close enough to it to call it so.

Remember, there is NO "flowing" coolant unless the engine is running, or cranking, to rotate the water pump at the front of the engine.

 

[pmsmechanic]

No.

Not even close. The "heater" that you install in your lower radiator hose will NOT circulate ANY coolant. It is a closed system. There is no circulation until you start the engine and the water pump starts circulating coolant through the system.

A block heater heats the coolant that's sitting stationary in the block. That warms the block. That is what you're after. A warm engine block, and some of that heat does transfer to the cylinder head through the castings.

A radiator hose heater only heats the coolant that is sitting stationary inside the rubber radiator hose. The only way to circulate that warm coolant is to crank the engine, which will circulate the warm coolant a little bit (depending on if or how much "bypass" is plumbed into your coolant system, because remember, your thermostat is CLOSED, so only the small bypass passage (if you have one) will flow any coolant at the far end of the cooling system). So the warm coolant in the hose is replaced with -35 F coolant that came out of the radiator in about 5 seconds and you stop cranking and start the whole process over again of heating the cold coolant sitting in the hose again.

Not quite "worthless" but close enough to it to call it so.

Remember, there is NO "flowing" coolant unless the engine is running, or cranking, to rotate the water pump at the front of the engine.

I wonder how the early John Deere 2 cylinder tractors ( A.B.H.M) cooled then with no water pump?

 

[Russ5160]

Good Lord.

Don't do this. Ever.

He said he has no problems starting his engine (twinotterpilot). Why on earth would you have him set his tractor on fire?!

We have done this many times. It doesn’t start any thing on fire. You don’t stuff it inside, you put it near the intake.

 

[JWR]

We have done this many times. It doesn’t start any thing on fire. You don’t stuff it inside, you put it near the intake.

I'd not worry about the fire aspects at all. It's the very fine wispy debris side products, not flame. I see no reason to take the risk of ingesting debris into that intake and risks to the turbocharger. There are a lot of ways to warm up air going in the intake that are 100% safe and can't feed in particles of fine debris. Like a hair dryer.

 

[ras5309]

Sounds to me like you have a problem in the glow plug system or your fuel is gelling and not flowing well enough to start. Have you tried any anti-gel additives?

 

[JWR]

No.

Not even close. The "heater" that you install in your lower radiator hose will NOT circulate ANY coolant. It is a closed system.

A block heater heats the coolant that's sitting stationary in the block. That warms the block. That is what you're after. A warm engine block, and some of that heat does transfer to the cylinder head through the castings.

A radiator hose heater only heats the coolant that is sitting stationary inside the rubber radiator hose. The only way to circulate that warm coolant is to crank the engine, [not true] which will circulate the warm coolant a little bit (depending on if or how much "bypass" is plumbed into your coolant system, because remember, your thermostat is CLOSED, so only the small bypass passage (if you have one) will flow any coolant at the far end of the cooling system). So the warm coolant in the hose is replaced with -35 F coolant that came out of the radiator in about 5 seconds and you stop cranking and start the whole process over again of heating the cold coolant sitting in the hose again.

Not quite "worthless" but close enough to it to call it so.

Remember, there is NO "flowing" coolant unless the engine is running, or cranking, to rotate the water pump at the front of the engine. [False.]

Disagree Slim. With all due respect, you are wrong. In-line coolant engine heaters in fact DO circulate coolant. What ever made you think they don't ? The ones I have owned have an internal check valve arrangement. When the coil heats a quantity of coolant in the cannister it burps out a burst of hot coolant under some pressure and ingests the next batch for heating. This process can be heard and felt. That is why there is a flow arrow on the units of course. The net effect is that they absolutely DO move coolant and the warmer it gets the faster the process. If you watch the system, the hoses all get warm with the output from the heater being the hottest of course. In my experience the 1000w or 1200w units work very well. Very well matched to your typical 120v homeowner circuits. I had never heard of weak ones of only 300w until reading this thread.

Rather obviously they would not be selling the things by the hundreds of thousands over the years otherwise. I bought my first one in 1979 and they had been on the market for years before that. [Mine was from Sears and Roebuck, remember them?]

And by the way, the freeze plug substitute "block heater" type does not have any means to move coolant other than slow convection. That convection has little chance of reaching the heads where it is most needed for starting, though if you leave it on long enough the warming process does work. The advantage of the in-line radiator hose installation is that the heads and entire system get warmed via the liquid flow in the coolant passages.

 

[RancherGuy]

So for two weekends in a row, I was unable to start the tractor with temperature around -35C. Had to wait for the temperature to be a 'mild' -20C for it to start.

I have a 300W heater on the cooling line and installed last weekend a battery tender. The heater is turned on for about two to three hours prior to the attempts at starting it. The tender stays 24/7.

What's the trick to start a diesel engine in such extreme temperatures?

In 1983 I worked a summer and fall in Prudhoe Bay. I left with daytime temps of -24C. For site operations, they had to ensure that pickups, trucks and all vehicles were operable every day. In the parking lots they had a high railing protected by a curb where the vehicles could park with the grill up near the railing. On the railing hung heavy electrical cords that dangled just above the ground. As I recall, once temps were below freezing at night, the drivers were instructed to plug their vehicle in, which supplied juice to engine block heaters. Once the temps dropped even further, the drivers were instructed to plug in and leave their vehicles idling - all night and day to keep them warm. The Maintenance department had a heated building for their stuff. That's how they dealt with extreme temps that might be as low as -70C in February.

For your situation, one issue that was barely touched was the fuel. I believe that typical diesel will gel at the temp you mention, so even if the engine is warm, the fuel might be too thick.

Winterized diesel (or have I heard to use kerosene?), low viscosity [synthetic] engine oil, block heater, building or protecting vehicle cover, good battery -- and you should have consistent success. Be sure to let it warm for a several minutes before operating.