Steep Gravel Driveway Too Much Work

[Pirate]

Drive is about 500' with half being real steep. I don't know the angle but I do know that if I stop my minivan while driving up, I need to back all the way down to get going again. It angles off to one side all the way down. Halfway down there is a 90 degree turn.
Problem is, over time tire grooves have formed on one side, really bad at the turn, and now the rain collects in that groove, runs down instead of off to the side, creating even more problems.
This drive is only 7 years old. I lost count of the number of loads of crusher run that have been dumped on it. This was the first year I didn't need another 20 tons. I think it was generic crusher run (receipts say #25) and not number 21a crusher run. The stones are all real small.
Would it really matter to use 21a vs. 25? If so, should I scrape down what I have a lay down 21a?
Can 't afford to pave it.

Thanks.

 

[Gator6x4]

I would scrape, dress the drive up insuring a crown in the middle and then apply product 57 or # 5 washed stone. Crusher run is good for base establishment but in my opinion you need something else to drive on daily.

 

[Alien]

Our name for it is crusher dust but it sounds to me like you need a coarse road base gravel. Crusher dust is OK if it is not prone to heavy rain but on a slope it will just wash away very quickly. Even a good road base gravel needs to be maintained on a slope using a boxblade or similar. A lot of locals in this area lost their driveways completely in the January rains here and some of those were not even on slopes. Yep, driveways are a pain....

Doug

 

[Pirate]

I was new to this gravel driveway business when I had the drive redone when we bought. All the locals around here and the local contractor all swore all you had to do was pile on crusher run #25. Well, it just gets swallowed up by the earth and rolls away. I had to follow his advice but.........
I am at the point now that I need to go blade it each time it rains. I reverse my blade on the back so it just sweeps the gravel back up the high side of the drive.
I had so much water running down the low side of the drive that I had a concrete trough put in next to the drive for the water to run down. It helped that problem but the drive is still too much work.
I read another post tonight where someone recommended crusher run 21a.

Here is another idea: What about just paving with concrete the 90 degree turn area? It seems that causes many of the problems from cars having to slow down while making the turn (curve really) and then start accelerating back up the second half of the slope, causing in spinning tires, loss of speed, etc.

 

[Alien]

Actually if you just throw a few bags of cement over the top before you grade next time it will mix in and help your base stabilize. just wet it after you grade it to help it go off. Just do the corner first to see if it works. The cement seeps through into the soil too. Haven't got any more suggestions sorry.
Doug

 

[k0ua]

I would sure give that cement idea a try, I have been fixing potholes in the ultra thin asphalt drive with "sackcrete" here is our method, dump the "sackcrete" loose in the bucket, and put on the 15 gallon sprayer on the back mount on the ballast barell, then fill the sprayer with water.. Go out on the very steep driveway, (whats left of it) and spray the potholes. Then shovel in or if enough of them close enough together just dump in with the bucket to fill the hole/holes. take a push broom and level or just a little over level off the 'crete. Then spray it down at least once good, preferably twice. Some of the holes and sides were done before last winter and they held up pretty good. It is more resistant to the gully washer rains that tear up the thin old asphalt. Another upside is that it is way cheaper and way easier to apply than asphalt premix. I cannot attest to how it would work with the crusher run, because our lower crusher run driveway is one of the flattest places on the whole place, as it is cut into the side of a hill with wooden retaining wall along the downhill side. But it is filling the holes in the asphalt, and as more of them appear as the asphalt wears out we keep on filling them. It doesn't look bad, at least not to me, and sure is a whole lot less expense and work.

James K0UA

 

[Alien]

I throw a bit of cement into post holes as I am filling them in too. Just mix it with the dirt etc. I had reason to remove one once. Boy, did it take some getting out. Took half of Queensland with it. It permeates into the soil around it.

Doug

 

[irvingj]

When I did my drive 26 years ago, the ol' geezer (with only one eye, but that didn't slow him down any!) that did the excavation simply told me up front: "This is going to go over budget, but here's what you have to do...."

He dozed it down 2 feet or more, brought in 350 tons of 5" stone, covered that with another 150 tons of "hardpack" (crusher run). He explained that that was the only way to ensure it would hold up. It's wet here, with a layer of clay 2-3 feet down. We have a great crop of ferns every year....

I've had to do major touch-ups only three times in all those years; it has held up extremely well. My drive is around 250 feet long, 90 degree corner at the bottom, and uphill all the way. Quite steep at the top.

OTOH, I've finally decided to bite the bullet and have it paved! Big decision for us (and pretty $$!!) but something I've wanted to do ever since we built the house. Asphalt arrives today!

At least it has a good stable base under it!

 

[Ken45101]

Crusher run sounds like the wrong approach to me for a steep hill. I put in #2 (3-4" crushed stone) and let the truck pack it down into the clay base over time. Held up very well. The contractor suggested #4 but that just disappeared.

I also had good results with #2 topped with #4 on a flat driveway in a clay environment.

Ken

 

[Egon]

Steep and gravel don't work well together. Your idea of concrete on the turn is the best solution. Consider adding some swales to divert the water to the downhill side of the road.

 

[LBrown59]

The trouble with a steep up hill gravel driveway is you can't get up it to get out.
The problem with a steep down hill gravel drive way is you is you can't get up it to get in .

 

[Pirate]

View of driveway looking up from the turn. I just spoke with the local quarry. He said pave it.

 

[NC4AB]

Hard to tell how steep the grade is from the picture but I don't see any swales to route the water into your concrete side ditch.

Depending on how steep it is you will need some swales placed ever so often to divert the water into the ditch. Google camp road maintenance, there are several good pages on how to properly design gravel roads.

 

[MarkV]

View of driveway looking up from the turn. I just spoke with the local quarry. He said pave it.

There you go, from the guy that knows all about gravel. My experience has been that with a steep grade there isn't a magic solution that involves gravel. It is all going to try an migrate down hill regardless of type. We have the best luck with crusher run, which here we call 3/4 inch and smaller crushed stone with stone dust mixed in. Some grades just need to be paved or worked after each major weather event like you are doing now. You do have good ditches in the photo and that is a must with a steep grade.

MarkV

 

[lhfarm]

....Here is another idea: What about just paving with concrete the 90 degree turn area? It seems that causes many of the problems from cars having to slow down while making the turn (curve really) and then start accelerating back up the second half of the slope, causing in spinning tires, loss of speed, etc.

I had similar problems with my gravel drive and the washing out issues were solved with the installation of culverts and proper crowning. However the pothole issue remains on my two 90 degree turns. I would be interested to know if anyone has poured concrete as you suggest. How did it work in the winter?

Thanks,

 

[piller]

I've got two steep sections on a 1/4 mile long gravel driveway. It used to be that during and after heavy rains you might think that part of my driveway was a creek and there would be a lot of gravel washed out into the road at the bottom of the driveway.

For me the issue was water management. It did not take a lot of work to slow down the water and to divert the water away from the driveway. I identified a few areas where I could divert the water away from the driveway and made them.

Then I placed rock checks (small piles of large rocks) at strategic spots in the ditches to slow down the rest of the water.

I have to check that the rock checks don't get blocked by debris every once in a while but this has been working well and I've not purchased any new gravel in three years.

I did most of this work by hand, although I used the FEL bucket to haul rocks.

 

[nolefan]

I am in a similar situation with my drive. After a heavy rain this summer that did a number on sections of my drive I consulted a neighbor who swears by filter cloth. Its basically a geotextile product. The local soil conservation office carries it. I stopped by one afternoon to look into it. They carry 12 and a half foot wide rolls that are 300' long. They use it primarily around water tanks and livestock areas but say it works great for gravel drives. I am not totally sold yet but might buy one roll next year and give it a try. You may want to call your soil conservation office.

 

[johnrex62]

All the locals around here and the local contractor all swore all you had to do was pile on crusher run #25. Well, it just gets swallowed up by the earth and rolls away.

They don't all work for the pit do they? :laughing:


Sorry, no help here. I am learning from your plight at the moment.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I have no idea what a #25 rock is. All the crushed rock around here is basalt and screened by size. River rock is not suitable for driveways.

I have a friend with a half mile gravel driveway on a fairly steep hill. He started with a reasonably firm shale base, added 6" of 3" crushed rock (railroad ballast), graded and rolled with heavy equipment, then 3 inches of 1-1/2" minus, graded and rolled. The whole drive was crowned to shed water and culverts installed to get water off of the uphill side. He says it lasts a couple years before he has to have them come back to grade and roll it again. This is with professional grader and roller equipment. He would be there forever trying to do it with a tractor and a 3 point blade, even a large one.

If you have a clay base, the geotextile fabric would be a lifesaver.

 

[Pirate]

Appreciate the replies. I told the guy at the quarry that if you stopped a car on the driveway, you had to back all the way down to start up again. He says, wow, that is steep.

I can't afford to pave the entire drive and parking area, it's probably 700' or so and I have a huge parking area at the house. If I pave just one section, I still have the possibility of needing heavy equipment up top, but then again, who doesn't?

I am steering toward paving with concrete the just steep section, maybe 300 or so feet. I figure if I win the lottery, I can finish the rest off some day. I hate to just keep dumping truckloads of gravel on this drive.

Regarding the swales, you can't tell from my picture but the entire drive leans toward the concrete ditch. It did of good job but a "drive" rut formed and then water got into that and now that rut keeps the water from flowing to the ditch. Now that I have the concrete ditch, I can't grade a new angle into the drive because it will end up below the lip of the concrete.