Step by step photos of new garage

[EddieWalker]

I'm not sure why you want a wall in front of the concrete????

I would either just niquid nails the osb to the concrete wall with a few inch and a half concrete nails to tack it on until the glue dries.

Or if you wanted to insulate it for some reason, I'd nail on some one inch fir strips up the wall on two foot centers with . Then I'd cut some foam sheets to fit in between the fir strips and then attach the osb to the fir with screws.

If you decide to frame up some 2x4's, than just attach them to the concrete on the flat side.

Eddie

 

[roermo]

Thanks folks for the input. Here in Hannibal right now its 23 d. and we get down to -10 some times. Summer it can get 90 and some times 100. Pulse if left uncovered the bare cement wall acts like a heat sink sucking the heat out or cooling it down. I want to insulate the walls with R 19 and run wire inside the wall and have the outlets flush with the walls surface. I am thinking going up only 7 ft would save studs (8’s instead of 10’s) pulse a bit easier to work with while gaining a ledge for ladders, my walk board, tree trimmer pole etc. But could be a dust magnet I guess. On the other hand a 10ft wall would more uniformed.

Then on the side of being totally ridicules. At the 7 ft. height if I measure it at that point, my garage is bigger than my brother in-laws because the wall at the height is set back, setting the 8in wall and is back 4 inches. (bragging rights)

Thanks all

Roger

 

[kmdigital]

I would paint the concrete. I'm not sure why you want to cover it. Insulation?
Dave

I'm with Dave, except I wouldn't even paint the wall. Painted concrete walls tend to peel and flake over time, which looks worse then bare concrete.

Unless you plan to heat it full time to something > 55 - 60 degrees in the winter, you won't save enough to cover the cost of covering it to justify the expense of insulation and OSB. My guess is that you will heat it to a low temp or not at all, and then just turn the thermostat up when you want to use it. And if you haven't backfilled it yet, I would drop sheets of 1" - 2" styrofoam board between the wall and the fill dirt, and cut them off flush with the grade after you backfill. This is a cheap and effective method of providing pretty good insulation, and will pretty much eliminate any possibility of condensation on the inside during the summer when the humidity is high. Obviously, the above grade concrete wouldn't be insulated, but this is only a fraction of the total wall space, so it really isn't a big deal unless the space will be heated to around 65+ degrees 24 hours a day.

For wiring, I would just run 1/2" EMT conduit down the wall to a surface mounted box, and use a Romex adapter at the top. This will be very easy to do since you have studs at the top through which to run your romex.

Another reason for leaving the wall bare is that concrete is virtually indestructible if you bang into it with something, and incase you ever have any water problems with damp walls, etc you don't have to worry about the OSB swelling or rotting away. Also, power washing the floor and lower part of the wall is much easier without having to worry about getting the OSB too wet or absorbing water on the lower edges.

Long-term, the bare concrete wall will hold up much better and IMO, look better for a shop then something that is all banged up or deteriorated from moisture absorption, etc.

 

[roermo]

Hi all, wanting your help and input once more (yet again).

I am at a point that I have to make a decision on the electric service.

1. jump off from the house main panel with 2 50 amp runs to get 100 amp box in the garage.

2. come into the garage with a whole new service for a 200 amp stand alone service with its own meter base.

1. is better because I do not have a monthly basic charge of 7.50 if I do not use any juice.
2. is better because I am not limited to what I am going to run in the garage.

My use in the garage will be:

All lights 6 overhead and some over work area
10 to 15 outlets.
110 ac unit / 220 maybe.
110 air compressor
110 welder
table saw, bench grinder, drill press, scroll saw, etc.

I might not run all the things at once of course.

But I am sure I would want to run a/c with say the air compressor.

What do you all think.

Thanks

Roger

 

[Bird]

Roger, my opinion is probably worth just what you paid for it, but . . . I don't understand why you mention running 100 amp service from the house or 200 amp stand alone. It seems to me you'll need the same amperage in the shop regardless of which place you pull it from.

I currently just have a 21 x 25 shop building and 100 amp service off the main house panel. I have a 230 volt window unit air-conditioner that's both heating and cooling; used very infrequently, but I've never worried about running that and my 120 volt air-compressor at the same time. And of course any time I'm out there, I usually have the lights on; eight fixtures, sixteen 4' florescent tubes.

When I bought my place in the country, the main panel on a pole just below the meter was a 100 amp panel. The idiot who owned the place before had run from that to a 100 amp panel in a mobile home, ran another pair of wires directly from that to a water heater in the mobile home that had replaced a gas water heater, and then ran wires from that same master panel to a 200 amp panel in the 40' x 60' shop building. I upgraded my main service to 200 amp service with a new pole, breaker panel, etc. But then I also did your #2 alternative, in that I put in a separate pole, meter, breaker panel, etc. just for the shop building, but even though the panel inside the building was a 200 amp panel, I only ran 100 amp service to it and never needed any more than that. I ran a 230 volt air-compressor almost every day, had a refrigerator and a freezer running all the time, had a little 115 volt welder, and also ran lots of other power tools and lights, but no air-conditioner; just fans.

In other words, whichever way you go, I'd be surprised if 100 amp service was not adequate. Have you done any kind of load survey to determine whether your house main panel can handle everything in the house in addition to running the 100 amp service to the garage?

 

[gemini5362]

roger #1 is a bad idea. I am sure if any electricians read that they will howl about it. never ever ever run two smaller wires to a bigger breaker. If one of the 50 amp breakers were to trip then the other small wire would be carrying the entire load. My rule of thumb although it might cost me some money is to always make sure the wireing from a circuit breaker will handle more current than the circuit breaker is rated at. If you need to run two wires from the house do it this way. have one of the breakers and wire sets be for 220 volts and have its own panel in the garage. Have the other wire be for 110 volts and have a seperate panel in the garage for it also. Small panels that will handle 40 or 50 amps and have room for 4 breakers are only about 20 dollars or so and you can get the size of main breaker for it you need. Then just use regular breakers in it for the outlets in your garage. Just in case the idea occurs to you that you can save money by not having a panel in the garage You dont want your grinder being on number 8 wire being fed by a 40 amp breaker in the house.

 

[fullmetal]

How bout 3?

3) Run 100 amp 4 conductor from main panel in house to sub panel in garage.

That gives you two hot (240V), one neutral and one ground.
Make sure your subpanel has seperate ground and neutral busses - not tied together like in the main panel.
Subpanel has 100 amp main breaker or main shutoff in the garage.
Main panel has 100 amp 240V breaker for feeder line to garage.
Drive a ground rod in near the subpanel and attach it to your ground buss in the subpanel using #4 copper wire.

This is what I'll be doing and I'll have more power requirements than you.

Dave

 

[gemini5362]

How bout 3?

3) Run 100 amp 4 conductor from main panel in house to sub panel in garage.

That gives you two hot (240V), one neutral and one ground.
Make sure your subpanel has seperate ground and neutral busses - not tied together like in the main panel.
Subpanel has 100 amp main breaker or main shutoff in the garage.
Main panel has 100 amp 240V breaker for feeder line to garage.
Drive a ground rod in near the subpanel and attach it to your ground buss in the subpanel using #4 copper wire.

This is what I'll be doing and I'll have more power requirements than you.

Dave

Roger he is absolutely right here in the way that he says to do it. The only problem with this way is that I know you have said before that you are on a pretty tight budget. I have never seen 4 conductor 100 amp cable I assume he is talking about running 4 seperate #2 wires ( I think #2 handles 100 amps) That is going to be pretty expensive I just ran 3 #2 wires for a new heat pump electric strip power in my house I got 25 feet of the # 2 per wire for a total of 75 feet. It was around 175.00 just for the wire if i remember correctly. I did not use underground feeder which you really should use if you are doing it right. I think you would be talking about several hundred dollars to wire your shop this way. But let me emphasize it is the best way to do it. What I suggested would work for you and not be unsafe it would also be a lot cheaper due to the smaller wires involved. Can you run your own electrical or do you have to have a licensed electrician do it for you ?

 

[roermo]

Thanks all:

I am having a contractor do the electic from the house to the panel, from there I am going to wire the plugs lights switches etc. At this point it is cheaper to run a whole new line from the pole to a new meter base and 100 amp box than from the house due to the cost of the wire. Of course there is the 7 dollar a month charge for the service each month but at this point I am going to think about this way due to the fact the house 200 amp box is almost full. 4 nock out left and I want to finish my basement in the house someday. I know I am all over the place. I have been told I think too much but I look at it this way better to think and dwell than redo.

Thanks all

Roger

 

[kmdigital]

For a service entrance, there is no need to run the expensive copper wire. Utility companies use only aluminum wire around here, and so did I. It is much cheaper, and considering that the average load is less then 20 amps and very seldom will be over 40 amps for any noticable period. At least you better hope not, as 40 amps draw over a 24 hour period would be 230.4 kWh or about $23 if your cost is $0.10 per kWh. That would get expensive very quickly. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using aluminum wire. Use 4 conductor aluminum wire, designed for direct burial. Guaranteed to work just fine, and much cheaper than copper.

Shucks, for a small shop like yours I would probably run a 60 amp service cable. It is more than adequate to run a welder and a pretty good sized AC at the same time, plus all the lights, assuming that you aren't in the production welding business. There are literally millions of homes in the U.S. with 60 amp services that are working just fine, running multiple refrigerators, ACs, dryers, etc.