Stupid Tractor Tricks

[gordon]

Re: Stupid Tractor Tricks-flipped it

Only damage was one bent brush screen. Could have been alot worse. About the questions on a seatbelt---yes it has one and he had it on---go figure. The only thing he hurt was his ego. The type of dozer is a D4H cat, the kind most of us drool over a real workhorse. Doesn't compact like a skidder but a much rougher ride. Everything has it's downside.

Here are his words on what happened:
One track rolled up on a large rock covered with moses and hidden in some brush. It felt like an old stump and I was expecting it to collapse. I was also turning at the time to come along side the felled tree to hook it. The Cat suddenly slid off the rock......

And the rest is history
Gordon

 

[Bird]

Re: Stupid Tractor Tricks-flipped it

Gordon, I kinda know how he felt driving onto a rock that he thought was a stump that would collapse. I've driven my little tractor over some clods of dirt and clay that I expected to collapse and didn't./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Haven't gone all the way over yet, but have sure scared myself a few times.

Bird

 

[Harv]

Well, it has taken several days for me to decide to share some of my weekend tractor experiences with y'all. It's not easy having to admit that I am both a complete idiot and lucky to be alive. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

If you recall the post that started this thread, I came close to tipping my tractor over on myself by chaining a small dead tree to one side of my bucket and lifting (while standing next to my tractor, no less). When I recovered from that one, I successfully lifted the tree out by centering the bucket forks on the tree, chaining it up and lifting straight up, as shown in this picture.

So this last weekend, another similarly-sized dead tree was in my way. This time I started with the exact same approach as in the picture 'cuz that was now tried and proven. Or so I thought. Two factors were a little different this time -- the tree had better roots, and the ground was now fairly muddy.

This time I was at least strapped into the seat, as I should be, and I tried to "curl" the tree out. I tried nudging the tree back and forth with the bucket a little to loosen it up. When I tried to curl it again, the chain slipped on the tree a little, so I raised the bucket a little (heaven forbid I get off the tractor and re-set the chain). I sensed a little progress, but the chain slipped a little more, so I raised the bucket a little more. The tree appeared about ready to come out, so I go the bright idea to slowly back the tractor up and just drag that dang twig out of the ground.

In less than a heartbeat, my right rear wheel spun a hole in the muddy ground and the tractor listed to that side. It then caught traction again and resumed pulling -- pulling the two left wheels off the ground so quickly I hardly had time to react. I instinctively let off the gas, stomped on the clutch and hit the brakes. I was now literally teetering on two wheels, and I was sure I was going over. As my life took on that queasy slow-motion feeling, I finally realized that my bucket was way too high to be pulling anything and that's what was pulling me over.

In a panic, I slammed the loader control forward and the tractor ungracefully plopped back down on all fours. The whole episode must have lasted no more than 3 seconds, but any of you who have had a similar experience, you know how long those seconds felt. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

I decided I liked the tree right where it was, and just pushed my way around it so I could get on with my next disaster. It took less than 20 minutes --

My whole goal was to clear a temporary path to our well head so I could haul a new housing (a remodeled doghouse) out to it. Then next obstacle was a fallen tree, maybe 12 inches in diameter. It had conveniently broken so that if I could just move a 10-foot section of it, I could scoot right through. So, with relative ease, I slipped under that section with my bucket forks and picked it up. I maneuvered it towards a sort of natural woodpile nearby and decided I wanted to drop this log towards the backside of the pile. As I approached the pile, I raised my load high enough for clearance, but an annoying branch was sticking up from the pile and was trying to dislodge my cargo.

So, with my attention focused on the annoying branch and the underside of the bucket, I raised it still higher until I had just about cleared the obstacle.

CRASH!!!

I thought my tractor had exploded right in my face. Close enough -- the log on my forks had rolled backwards, right off the bucket and down the loader arms and right at me! Then only thing that stopped it from becoming part of my dental work was a branch of its own which caught on the base of my exhaust stack!

Miraculously, there was no damage, not even a scratch, to the tractor, and I was thankful the seat is washable. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

All I could do was to scream out loud about how stupid I had been -- for the second time in less than half an hour. In both cases I knew better than to do what I had done, yet somehow (brain fart?) I had totally lost track of what I was doing and nearly paid the price.

Like I said, this is fairly embarassing to write about, but I know there are other newbies on this board who might benefit from hearing from a first-class idiot.

 

[roysallis]

Harv, I'm glad you and your tractor are ok. I have had simimliar experiences with 2 wheels off the ground. It seems we too often forget about safety when we get in a hurry or get comfortable with using such a powerful piece of machinery. Stay scared and it will help you to be safe.

 

[Richard]

Ouch Harv...

Years ago, my father became enamored with some new product. Seems it was a contraption that with a push of a button, rotated, hence, slid a "fresh" plastic seat cover around on public toilet seats. Sounds interesting enough I guess, though I've yet to see that specific market take off. I'm wondering if that concept could maybe somehow be altered and used benefically on tractor seats? /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Just out of curiosity...do you think a 4 in 1 bucket would have helped change the factors enough where this might not have happened??

Given your circumstances, could you have just plowed the first offending tree over by pushing with the bucket?

Richard

 

[RobS]

Wow Harv, glad to hear you are still with us. My advice in those instances (usually to myself) is to slow down, reduce horsepower and increase brainpower. My guess is you already know that.

My stupidity on my own tractor so far is limited to the following: I keep the tractor at our house in the garage. Right now I've got my rotary cutter in the garage facing out and I pull the tractor in forwards with the box scraper on the back. I have to raise the FEL up over the cutter and overlap the two to get it all to fit lengthwise. The first time I did this I pulled in too far and ran the grill right into the PTO shaft on the the cutter. Minimal damage other than to my ego. Knowing I'll do this again I checked with the dealer for a grill guard and there is nothing available /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

My bigger stupids have been on others' equipment (lesson: don't loan equipment, especially to me). My first tractor experience was probably 20 years ago on a Kubota belonging to a guy I worked for. We were loading a pickup with gravel and I was behind the wheel. I don't remember the details but somehow the loader hydraulic line got caught on the truck bed and snapped a fitting right off. Fluid everywhere! Seems the design was poor as the fittings extended below the plane of the loader arms.

My more recent stupid involved a bobcat (rental). Again I was loading a truck (this time my truck). I had the bucket full on a slight downslope toward my truck. As I eased up to the truck while slowing the momentum of the load tipped the whole Bobcat forward into the side of my truck. Crushed the bed side and a bit of the tailgate. After some screaming, pants changing etc. I used the Bobcat to push the side of my truck back into reasonable shape and hammered out the tailgate so it's functional. Still driving with those scars as a permanent reminder to use my head muscle more than my others. I'll post some truck pics sometime for all to enjoy.

Once again Harv, glad you only damaged your pride. Be careful out there!

Rob

 

[Bird]

Harv, really got a kick out of reading about your, and Rob's, experiences./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Of course, it's always funny when it happens to someone else (if no one gets hurt). If someone gets hurt, kinda takes the funny out of it. Quite awhile ago, on TV they showed a doctor (weekend farmer) who let a round bale of hay roll back from his loader onto him - broke his back and now he's in a wheelchair./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Glad to hear that you're alright Harv. Don't feel stupid. Even the best laid plans and thought out ways to do things still go bad even when you are careful.
Richard

 

[DFB]

Harv, I'm sure glad to hear your allright. I've got the same style forks and I know how just how easy a log can roll over the top of the bucket. Several times I've thought about fabricating some kind of bolt on uprights with stops on the ends. As much as most of us won't admit it **** happens. Since some of us are fessin' up here I'll share this little episode. (Bird, I'm sure you'll get a chuckle out of this) When my tractor was first delivered the parking brake had some problems. Parked the tractor, engaged the parking brake, put the range selector in neutral. Got off the tractor and started to walk away when my wife shouted the tractors' rolling. Rolled about 25 ft downhill, and lucky for me right into my pile of topsoil. Needless to say I intend not to have a repeat performance.

 

[ddl]

Harv
My first question is what did your tilt meter read when you were almost tipping over? Bet you did not even look to see the reading. Which is normal, but that is what I have been saying about those meters, events happen too fast for a meter that only reads the present. If it could have looked into the future and sounded an alarm. you problem would have never happened. But I bet you were on level ground also, so you meter reading was normal. I am gald you did not take the time to read the meter or you would have been under the tractor getting muddy. All of us that grew up on a tractor know exactlly what you felt like at the monent of panic. Most people don't get that monent befor doom happens. Say a lot of prayers.

Dan L

 

[Harv]

<font color=blue>do you think a 4 in 1 bucket would have helped change the factors enough where this might not have happened?</font color=blue>

Richard -

Certainly the log wouldn't have rolled back on me, but I bet I could find other ways to get into trouble. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif BTW - It's probably been answered in the 4-in-1 threads, but how much heavier are those buckets (i.e. how much lifting power would I be giving up)?

<font color=blue>could you have just plowed the first offending tree over by pushing with the bucket?</font color=blue>

I did that to some similarly-sized trees and too many were just breaking off, leaving me with a stump to deal with. I "thought" I could do a more complete job my yanking it out, roots and all.

DDL -

It's a little hazy in my mind, but I believe my tiltmeter said something like, "Holy Sh__!!! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

You are absolutely right -- a tiltmeter doesn't help when the situation arises so quickly (hmmmm -- meter says 90 degrees. Crap! /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif). My tiltmeters have proven most valuable when I'm entering "uncharted" territory, which, with 42 back-woods kind of hilly acres, happens fairly often. The usual scenario is that as I ease into a foreign slope or tilt area I watch the tiltmeter carefully to sort of "feel out" the terrain. If I get too close to 15 degrees sideways, or 20 degrees front-to-back, I back out and look for an alternative route.

Occassionaly, I'm caught by surprise when the general terrain looks okay but I hit a contour that tips me to that lump-in-the-throat angle I'm sure most of you have experienced. Thankfully tractors stop rather quickly when you take your foot off the gas. At this point I look at the meters to see if I should proceed or back up. More often than not it turns out to be around 10 degrees, but there's something about going from zero to 10 that accelerates one's pulse (anybody else ever notice that?).

My biggest scares, other than the ones I just confessed to in my last post, are when I'm backing up, usually too fast, and run over a rock with one rear wheel. That changes your tilt real fast. One time I simultaneously climbed a rock on one side just as the other wheel found a rut. Zero to 15 degrees in a split second can really take its toll on your underwear. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif One of these days I'm afraid I'm going to hit one of those situations when I'm already on a slope, after which I will probably take some real interesting pictures for this board. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[dmccarty]

Ahh, the 4n1 bucket....

That is the first thing that popped in my head when reading Harv's story. This would not have happened on my 4n1 bucket if I had grabbed the logs with the FEL. I HAVE had stuff ALMOST do what Harv described when place timber slash on a burn pile. Thankfully it was little itty bitty stuff, well only 3-4 feet long a 4-5 inches in diameter, and it did not leave the bucket. Still a wake up call to see the stuff bouncing around in the bucket trying to escape back on me or the tractor.... 8-(

Harv, I have had days like what you discribe. Just makes me go slower and try to use more brain power instead of Horse power.

Go Slow Go Slow Go Slow is my Tractor Operator Mantra. Since I'm not working farm fields, what a blessing that would be, but I'm up in the woods and go slow is a must. Last weekend, if I had been going anything but slow I would have likely damaged the tractor. My stabilizer legs on the backhoe sometimes move from their full up position when the tractor has set for awhile with the engine off. I keep the tractor near a tree and when I started to move off in the morning to work I glanced back and noticed that the legs were down a bit. If I had kept moving forward they would have grabbed the tree. If I had been moving fast I would have not been able to stop and steer away from the tree.

The other Almost stupid thing I did was back down my friends driveway. It has a curve in it and I had looked forward and started to move off the driveway into a very steep ditch. I caught it just in time but it would have been roll over time. I'm going to talk to my friends about this because they are very likely to have problems with their cars with the way things are setup. A few well place rocks would solve the problem....

Later....
Dan McCarty

 

[Thomas]

Harv,
I just as soon not see one of those interesting pictures and knowing you were a part of it...be careful out there....okay.

Like the old carpenter would say..measure twice cut once. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[Thomas]

Bird,
Once on my dad's farm one night bunch kids got together and roll several round bales of hay down the field into the road, /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gifand its a darn good thing nobody was traveling the road that night...{look like big marsh mellows}...what a mess. /w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif


Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[gordon]

First let me say I'm glad you are alright and also thanks for sharing the story, hopefully others will learn from it.

I've said this before---the learning curve can be very steep at times, I know I'm still on the curve it's never ending.

For a small tree like that next time try this--hook a chain a few feet up on the trunk to your drawbar. Make sure the chain is longer than the tree is tall--this is very important. then give it a yank. If the tree doesn't move try digging and cutting some of the roots on the opposite side that you have the chain hooked to. I only do this on smaller trees.

As for moving slash you learned a valuable lesson when you raise the bucket you must also roll the bucket forward to keep it level. This holds true for alot of things. If you get into that habbit you'll be alot better off in the long run. You know how I know this? All I can say is been there done that./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

I've posted alot of my dumb tractor moves in the past so I won't bore you with them again. But a couple of weeks ago I was grading up to a couple of new greenhouses to cover the plastic edges and give water runoff. The bad thing was that inbetween the two greenhouses I had just enough room with my rearblade offset and a couple of feet to spare. So I was moving right along then I hit a small pile of dirt that I had graded out somewhat before the the ground froze. It was still froze and guess what---the back of the tractor slipped sideways and I put a gash in the plastic about 6" long before I got the tractor stopped. Well I figured that my insurance had just bought two very large pieces of plastic--it went through both the outer and inner pieces of plastic. I tried to call the owner on my cell phone but he wasn't home so I left a message about what happened and to give me a price of replacement plastic for my insurance. Later he called me back and was actually laughing, said I did such a good job grading. I did move alot more dirt to give a better grade for the same price but irreguardless, don't worry about that small cut he has greenhouse tape and would fix it no problem. Needless to say I was sure happy. He now has given me a list of things he wants done. He said just do them and bill him--nice to have some great customers. He did say becuse I was honest about the small tear as he called it, he now trusts me to work on a open ticket. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

So here I thought I was a total complete idiot for tearing up his greenhouse---it got turned right around! So Harv don't be so hard on yourself--stuff happens the main thing is that you learn from it! As I said before I'm still on that learning curve as well---we all are! If anyone tells you different tell them to go pound sand.
Gordon

 

[Harv]

Gordon -

Thanks for the semi-encouraging words, and thanks even more for sharing that great story. Since your customer likes you all the better for telling the truth about a little screw-up, maybe you should knock a tree over on his house and confess that one, too. He'll probably put you in his will. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

What really hurts about my boo-boos is the sheer stupidity of it all. The fact that I knew better than to pull with a raised bucket, the fact that I knew the bucket needs to be rolled when the loader is raised, and the fact that I screwed up anyway is pretty disconcerting. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

I guess it's going to be like so many sports I used to do. Downhill skiing, karate, racquetball, volleyball, whatever -- even though I learned the rules and the moves fairly easily, it was plain hard work and surely no fun until all I had learned became instinctual. I guess my grey matter runs at relatively low rpm, so it's not 'til the reflexes take over that I become competent.

Just rationalizing, of course, but what else can I do at this point? Just hope I survive this learning curve. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

 

[dmccarty]

Sorry Harv, but I can't answer your question as to how much my 4n1 bucket wieghs. I never bothered to asked since I had to have the 4n1 regardless of wieght.

Removing small pine saplings is another good use for the 4n1. If I push over the sapling they just bend over or break off. If they bend over I can usually grab the sapling with the 4n1 and pull it on out. The trunk might break at this point as well. If it does or if it broke off when first pushing I just grab the stump and pull it out of the ground. This has worked real well on pulling pine stumps up to 4-5 inches. The hardwoods are more difficult since they seem to have more grip on the ground and the 4n1 does not bite is as much as on the pine.

If you have things to grab a 4n1 is the way to go. I can't imagine not having one on the tractor. I would be just so unproductive. I cleaned up a 60 foot section of road a couple weeks back that had some of the last remaining stands of saplings. Pines are real easy to cut down with an edger using a circular saw blade. That 60 foot section would have taken me an hour to cut down leaving just an inch or two of stump. It took me an hour, at most, with the tractor to clean up. The difference was that in one hour I had cleaned up the whole section, trees down, stacked in piles and stumps pulled. With just an edger and chainsaw it would have taken an hour to cut down the saplings. Another 20-30 minutes to saw up the saplings so I could stack them. And finally another 30 minutes of hard work to stack the trees. So that is one hour vs two which does not sound like much of a savings except for two things. With the tractor I don't break a sweat AND the stumps are pulled out of the ground and stacked. There is no way I could get the stumps out by hand.

Earlier last year I spend several months where every week I worked two to three days a week clearing that road. Its around 1600 feet long from where I had to start. And I had to clear both sides. So 3200 feet of road I had to work. A good day of work was 300 feet in one day for both sides, 600 feet out of 3200. But that would be very small saplings, mainly pine and not very dense. Some days I was doing well to go 150 feet on both sides. If I had the tractor with the 4n1 and my rotary cutter I could have done things in a much shorter time. And far easier. I REALLY wish I had the tractor back then!

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[PaulInMi]

Harv-

I'm awaiting the arrival of my grill/hood guard which is on back order. Do you think that would've helped in your situation?

Glad you and the tractor are ok/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif.

Paul

 

[Harv]

You're being a little vague there, Dan.

Are saying you like your 4n1? /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[Harv]

Paul -

I'm not real clear on what a grill/hood guard looks like, but off hand I would say, no, it wouldn't have helped.

When a log tumbles out of a raised bucket, it's pretty far above the hood of the tractor. The loader arms are pretty much the only things it touches until it gets to you. Unless, of course, a branch catches on the base of the exhaust stack and stops the rolling motion. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif