Surprised by need for rear ballast with L 4060 in this situation

[jgoodma1]

I recently bought an L4060. I have a 4000 lbs SS QA fork attachment that I used with the L48 TLB that I sold before buying the L4060. I know it’s heavier than what one might normally buy for that size tractor, but I had it already. I have some units of hardwood lumber that I have moved around with the L4060, that are about 32” wide and 12’-16’ long, some of which weigh 1400-1500 lbs. I have beet juice in the tires for ballast. I was able to move that lumber around with no problem, while working slowly and carefully as I moved it.

Anyway, today I bought 25 leftover 4x8 sheets of 1/2” OSB from a guy and he brought them to me. We unloaded them from his pickup and put them on the forks of my tractor so I could move them to a different place on my property. These 25 sheets weigh 48 lbs. each, for a total of 1200 lbs. I had no problem lifting the 25 sheets, but my rear wheels were so light that they spun on my gravel drive.

My old L48 was my first tractor, and I always had the backhoe on it, and I never had a problem lifting anything with the FEL, and it spoiled me in that regard. I’ve been reading the many cautionary tales on TBN of hairy situations with rear wheels lifting off the ground, so when I have been moving my piles of lumber around, I’ve been very careful, and had no problems. But I was completely taken by surprise today when I couldn’t move with only 1200 lbs plus the fork weight because I didn’t have adequate ballast. Of course, OSB is 48” wide as opposed to the 32” widths of the lumber piles I’d been moving. I don’t remember my physics lessons.....is there an exponential increase in the leverage exerted as the load gets wider and further away from the fulcrum of the front wheels? Is there a simple math formula that would help me with anticipating when I have too much weight, based on the projection of the load? Thanks.

 

[k0ua]

Don't worry about the formula and the math. Not worth the effort. Without question you need at least 1000 lbs on your 3 point hitch IF NOT MORE to avoid disaster, In NO WAY, would I have even attempted to do the lift you described without my ballast barrel on the 3point. Sure I have loaded tires and I bet my tractor weighs about the same as yours, but you were just asking for trouble with that lift without ballast. You ALWAYS want ballast on when attempting any heavy lift. !200 lbs of gravel in your bucket, you could get away with because it is so close in, but 1200 lbs stuck out there better than 4 foot is a BIG no no.

 

[oosik]

With my heavy duty grapple, RimGuard loaded rear tires & really heavy Rhino rear blade - my M6040 weighs 10,100 pounds. I can STILL get "light in the loafers" if lifting a really big rock or chunk of pine tree trunk.

My Op Manual warns to NEVER attempt to lift with the FEL without adequate ballast on the 3-point.

You might have been very lucky - get your tractor set up correctly.

BTW - my Rhino rear blade weighs - 1050# and sticks way out back.

 

[RjCorazza]

Also, all the beet juice in the world won't save the front axle from being overloaded.

 

[SDT]

I recently bought an L4060. I have a 4000 lbs SS QA fork attachment that I used with the L48 TLB that I sold before buying the L4060. I know it’s heavier than what one might normally buy for that size tractor, but I had it already. I have some units of hardwood lumber that I have moved around with the L4060, that are about 32” wide and 12’-16’ long, some of which weigh 1400-1500 lbs. I have beet juice in the tires for ballast. I was able to move that lumber around with no problem, while working slowly and carefully as I moved it.

Anyway, today I bought 25 leftover 4x8 sheets of 1/2” OSB from a guy and he brought them to me. We unloaded them from his pickup and put them on the forks of my tractor so I could move them to a different place on my property. These 25 sheets weigh 48 lbs. each, for a total of 1200 lbs. I had no problem lifting the 25 sheets, but my rear wheels were so light that they spun on my gravel drive.

My old L48 was my first tractor, and I always had the backhoe on it, and I never had a problem lifting anything with the FEL, and it spoiled me in that regard. I’ve been reading the many cautionary tales on TBN of hairy situations with rear wheels lifting off the ground, so when I have been moving my piles of lumber around, I’ve been very careful, and had no problems. But I was completely taken by surprise today when I couldn’t move with only 1200 lbs plus the fork weight because I didn’t have adequate ballast. Of course, OSB is 48” wide as opposed to the 32” widths of the lumber piles I’d been moving. I don’t remember my physics lessons.....is there an exponential increase in the leverage exerted as the load gets wider and further away from the fulcrum of the front wheels? Is there a simple math formula that would help me with anticipating when I have too much weight, based on the projection of the load? Thanks.

A BH is very heavy and you have been spoiled.

FWIW, my L6060 (ROPS) will not back up a very slight incline on crushed rock with the FEL and (empty) 4-in-1 bucket attached unless in FWA or counter weight is attached.

No beet juice as I still change/repair my own tires but it does have the maximum of 3 cast iron weights on each rear wheel.

Tractor is actually dangerous on inclines even with empty bucket as turning down hill will invariably raise the outside rear wheel unless mower or ballast box is installed on hitch.

SDT

 

[jgoodma1]

Thanks everyone. Message understood!

 

[5030]

Also, all the beet juice in the world won't save the front axle from being overloaded.

EXACTLY. ballasting and overloading the front axle consistently will eventually eat up the bearings in the outboard planetaries.

 

[5030]

Never loaded the rears on either of my Kubota M9's. No need to. I run cast center wheel hubs instead.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

A BH is very heavy and you have been spoiled.

FWIW, my L6060 (ROPS) will not back up a very slight incline on crushed rock with the FEL and (empty) 4-in-1 bucket attached unless in FWA or counter weight is attached.

No beet juice as I still change/repair my own tires but it does have the maximum of 3 cast iron weights on each rear wheel.

Tractor is actually dangerous on inclines even with empty bucket as turning down hill will invariably raise the outside rear wheel unless mower or ballast box is installed on hitch.

SDT

iTiiT. I fix all our flats on 8 tractors. All have water in all four tires all the time. Plus some anti freeze.

 

[CobyRupert]

EXACTLY. ballasting and overloading the front axle consistently will eventually eat up the bearings in the outboard planetaries.

What kind of bait and switch is it if your ballasted so that you can safely lift the weight the FEL and tractor was built (and sold) to do, and this overloads the front axle?

Also, rear ballast takes weight off the front axle.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP..... I don’t remember my physics lessons.....is there an exponential increase in the leverage exerted as the load gets wider and further away from the fulcrum of the front wheels? Is there a simple math formula that would help me with anticipating when I have too much weight, based on the projection of the load? Thanks.

No, it's simply linear. Making it easy to estimate. If you move the center of mass twice as far from the fulcrum, the force doubles.

 

[k0ua]

Just so you know, according to tractordata.com your bare tractor weighs 3737 lbs assuming gear transmission and NOT cabbed. Mine weighs 3915 lbs. bare. so I was not far off when I guessed yours and my tractor were close in weight with mine a couple of hundred pounds heavier. And as others have pointed out, the loaded tires, while great to have for when you are pulling a ground engaging implement like a blade, do nothing to remove weight from your front axle. And when your rear tires come off of the ground the added weight of the loaded tires is added to the additional weight the front axle must support. Your need rear ballast.

 

[Fallon]

What kind of bait and switch is it if your ballasted so that you can safely lift the weight the FEL and tractor was built (and sold) to do, and this overloads the front axle?

Also, rear ballast takes weight off the front axle.

Which is why all owners manuals say to properly ballast on the 3pt when lifting with the loader.

The axle only gets overloaded if there isn't proper ballast in back.

Loaded rear tires make the back end less likely to lift. But do nothing to play teeter totter to unload the front with the back ballast. Due to the rear not wanting to come off the ground, you can actually increase the load on the front axle lifting heavy by loading your rear tires

 

[JWR]

There is no reason to fret over picking up 1200lb with your 4060 & FEL. The cg of your 4ft plywood is 2ft out from the back edge of the fork frame. The 32" materoial cg would be 16" out from the back of the fork frame. So 24/16 = 1.5x the forward rotational torque relative to the back of the fork frame. We don't know how far from the back of the fork frame the center of the front axle is but we do know going to the 4ft material makes a lot less than 1.5 X the rotational torque around the front axle compared to the 32" stack of material. As the other guy said, it is linear, not exponential.
No reason to see this circumstance in catastorphic terms or being all that dangerous. You are not , so far as we know, moving this stuff around on hillsides or slopes. The rear tires becoming light and lacking traction is a great hint for situational awareness. So as everyone says, put something in back for ballast -- not because of any great danger but because it improves the overall comfiort and good sense of operation. I use a 1460lb 7ft Bush Hog on the back of my MF2660 almost all the time when I am lifting stuff with the FEL, have rear tires loaded, and never have to even think about the balancing issue. If it fits your typical operation, hang a bush hog back there.

Unlike what one of the above posts said, the more ballast you have the less weight there is on your front axle (though the reduction is small.) Your loader is spec'd to handle loads several hundred lbs greater than the 1200lbs so an occassional 1200lb FEL load is not likely to hurt your front axle or bearings.

 

[4570Man]

Overloading the front axel due to inadequate ballast is total bs. It would take way more ballast then feasible possibly to lighten the load on the front. Busting the drive in the front axel due to it doing all the work because there’s no traction on the back axel might be a valid argument. BTW a tractor is the worst loader platform ever designed. You’d be hard pressed to build something worse.

 

[oosik]

Based upon physics and the fulcrum principle - ballast hanging off the 3-point helps the front axle VERY LITTLE. If you are lifting stuff that heavy and added weight on the 3-point saves your front axle - you are ALREADY long gone.

I want somebody to post a section from their tractor Op manual that states - "rear ballast must be used to prevent damage to the front axle".

Come on folks - lets use our heads.

 

[4570Man]

Based upon physics and the fulcrum principle - ballast hanging off the 3-point helps the front axle VERY LITTLE. If you are lifting stuff that heavy and added weight on the 3-point saves your front axle - you are ALREADY long gone.

I want somebody to post a section from their tractor Op manual that states - "rear ballast must be used to prevent damage to the front axle".

Come on folks - lets use our heads.

Not only would it take immense weight on the 3ph to do any good it allows you to load the front axel far more before the tractor tips vs not having any ballast.

 

[SDT]

iTiiT. I fix all our flats on 8 tractors. All have water in all four tires all the time. Plus some anti freeze.

Beet juice equipment is expensive and I have neither need nor intention of buying such.

SDT

 

[oosik]

Beet juice and a heavy rear blade simply keep my rear tires in contact with the ground when I lift a heavy load with the FEL/grapple.

If I thought the front axle assembly was that fragile - wouldn't have the FEL.

 

[kantuckid]

oosik has corrected some miss-information above IMO.
A playground Teeter Totter is a grade school physics problem. Weight toward the back, tires w/fluid, ballast boxes, slope, all do matter.
As for the FEL, there sits in a shop not far from me a much larger tractor than the OP's which has a huge and heavy, broken front axle casting from being used by a logger to pick up large oak logs for truck loading. FWIW, beet juice is heavier than WW fluid & some other tire weight fluids.