Surprised by need for rear ballast with L 4060 in this situation

[notaz3]

Did you check the loader manual? I haven't looked at your particular model but in the past the ballast info was in the loader manual, not he tractor manual.

From the loader manual
"For tractor stability and operator's safety, rear
ballast should be added to the rear of the
tractor in the form of 3-point counter weight
and rear wheel ballast. The amount of rear
ballast will depend on the application."

 

[jgoodma1]

So anytime a manual gives an exact weight four a counterbalance they are very likely making the assumption you are on level ground and probably not moving. I've never seen a deere manual with specified ballast needed for lifting but the last one I looked at pre-dated DVDs...and cell phones...and personal computers. So between my bad memory and the years maybe it was in there but I don't recall it.


Shoot, millwork? I could probably get in there and wrap myself around a lathe faster than you could stop me. I can see how the same is true for tractors to the "newbs", mater of fact I think it's been proven over and over in news articles and horror stories. I never thought about a class, I already know everything but I even would be interested in taking one, you know, for science. You should send that comment in, I'm sure many dealerships would be glad to have an extra cash flow and manufacturers could make a good show for their insurance folks about how they improve safety.

So as I mentioned to the first question these charts have to assume you're lifting on a level surface, you're lifting straight up, probably not moving. None of that is likely to be true for most applications with a tractor. You'll have a tire in a hole, you'll be facing down hill already trying to lift that fence post out, you're lifting the bale up to to put it in the feeder with two wheels on 12" of accumulated manure. A tractor loader unlike the forklift pushes the weight away from the front wheels as it lifts to a certain height then pulls it back closer maybe even over the front wheels. We also move on tractors a lot while, maybe not ideal or something we should do, but we adjust loads on the move and even pick things up moving (cleaning bales of a field comes to mind). I wouldn't want the liability of saying "ohh yeah, you put 437 lbs on the 3PT and you can lift max load with the FEL safely" vs the forklift which we are 99% safe in assuming the conditions and stability of a lift based on the intended use of the forks (warehouse, lot, off pavement, off road).

Gotcha. What you’re saying makes a lot of sense and I certainly see the distinction. Thanks.

 

[jgoodma1]

From the loader manual
"For tractor stability and operator's safety, rear
ballast should be added to the rear of the
tractor in the form of 3-point counter weight
and rear wheel ballast. The amount of rear
ballast will depend on the application."

Thank you. I wish Kubota would get into some detail. That statement is boilerplate to cover their asses from being sued and is pretty much as worthless as **** on a bull. How much ballast? My 3PH has a capacity of over 2000 lbs. Would 2000 lbs. maximize my safety? Would it put too much stress on the rear? And I know the distance that the cantilever is projecting out has a direct impact on the load capacity, but if more is better, while staying within the limits of the particular machine, then I’d like to know and if not, I’d like to know that too.

 

[RandyT]

Someplace in the paperwork for my DK45S with the Bushhog M346 loader it calls for 2300# of ballast. Keep in mind I have a 2600# tph capacity, but there is no way to achieve that with a backhog without wheel ballast, and the Kioti manual limits wheel weights to 110# per wheel, so you would have to run fluid with a backhoe to achieve that.

 

[Fallon]

Thank you. I wish Kubota would get into some detail. That statement is boilerplate to cover their asses from being sued and is pretty much as worthless as **** on a bull. How much ballast? My 3PH has a capacity of over 2000 lbs. Would 2000 lbs. maximize my safety? Would it put too much stress on the rear? And I know the distance that the cantilever is projecting out has a direct impact on the load capacity, but if more is better, while staying within the limits of the particular machine, then I’d like to know and if not, I’d like to know that too.

Realistically the weak point on a tractor ballast wise will be the 3pt lift capacity or keeping the front of the tractor on the ground when you lift the 3pt up with all the ballast on there. Rear axles are very robust, unlike complex small expensive front axles.

For how much ballast on the 3pt, your best course of action will be a little less than it's max capacity.

Loader capacity is limited by a couple things:
Loader construction strength - rarely a concern with an OEM loader.
Front axle strength - Usually bearings & seals wearing out to quickly & not an immediate failure.
Weight & ballast - keeping the back end on the ground & not rolling the machine
Hydraulics - popping the relief valve to prevent you from overloading things.

My L3200 was limited by ballast. It could pull the back end off the ground even with decent ballast. My new L4060 is limited by Hydraulics or possibly front axle. It feels stable lifting heavy with minimal ballast (not that I do that other than 1 careful static test). The Hydraulics go into relief if I try to lift something to heavy. Really that's the safest option. Many would call that a weak loader, but it's better than a broken or rolled machine.


Remember, ignorance & being a newbie can be cured by knowledge & experience. We were all there once. Stupid on the other hand is a permanent condition. The problem with ignorance is you don't know what you don't know. If you don't know about proper ballast you roll your machine. If you know ballast is a thing but not the details you can ask, research or carefully test.

 

[sea2summit]

Was looking up some troubleshooting in my disc mower manual and came across these. So formulas you can plug and play for your tractors. Seems like it would be good info in the tractor manual.

 

[jonsstihl]

subscribed for those calculations nice find . tmgt beat me too it but I think there was some general info in the loader manual. especially about tire pressures with the loader installed. I think the basic concept is to use as much ballast as possible depending on the load being lifted.

 

[jgoodma1]

Was looking up some troubleshooting in my disc mower manual and came across these. So formulas you can plug and play for your tractors. Seems like it would be good info in the tractor manual.
View attachment 710135
View attachment 710134View attachment 710136View attachment 710133View attachment 710132

Great info! Thanks for posting.

 

[Mat4644]

Tire ballast is great for traction and makes a poor loader counterweight. Extending low weight behind the 3pt is much more effective and safe.