Surveyor mistake - a big one

[JN4310]

Bob,

Wow, I didn't mean for any of this to come across as hate. I don't hate anyone, especially in this situation. I feel bad for the surveyor, he has admitted he has a big mess on his hands. I was hoping to apply a little creative thinking to the process before this thing ended up in the hands of the lawyers.

My reluctance about lawyers is really directed at the entire civil legal system. I live in Florida and was sued several years ago by an ex-customer who had no basis and admitted he looked for years to find a lawyer to even take his case. He sued me in Californa, so we had to go out there for the trial. The attorney I engaged said no big deal, it won't be a long case. When it started, he showed that the plaintiff had no legal standing, but the judge said, Oh well, we're all here, let's have a trial. He and other attorney spent a week milking it and trying to get me to settle, and the judge just let it go on. My attorney was actually in two cases at the same time, and yet billed me for 100% of his time. In the end, I got a 48 vote to 0 verdict (four counts) and ended up with a $75,000 bill from a $25,000 estimate. My attorney spent the next year making my life miserable. The whole process was like watching sausage being made...

However, I am not carrying that over to this, I just wondered if anyone had seen a similar situation of a surveyor missing a mark by 200' before. It really distorts a 5 acre lot. I would really like to resolve this while there is still a smile on my face...

John

 

[CurlyDave]

However, I am not carrying that over to this, I just wondered if anyone had seen a similar situation of a surveyor missing a mark by 200' before. It really distorts a 5 acre lot. I would really like to resolve this while there is still a smile on my face...

The surveyor should have "errors and omissions" insurance. A lawyer will know this and will be able to force them to pony up enough money so that everyone will come out sort of satisfied.

If you go into this without a lawyer you will end up with the short & dirty end of the stick.

The answer to you previous question of "how do you move two concrete block homes...?" is simple. You get a lawyer to force they surveyor's insurance company to pay for tearing them down, restoring the land under them to its original condition, and rebuilding them.

If you try to deal with this yourself you will get the endless run-around.

BTW, make copies of that letter where the surveyor admits to making the mistake and stash them in several places. Your lawyer will have a field day with that letter.

 

[dqdave1]

You stated the neighbor is selling; that started this. Have thw surveyor buy your neighbors property and give it to you. All is good then. You have 10 acres for the price of 5. Probably the cheap solution in this case.

 

[ultrarunner]

You stated the neighbor is selling; that started this. Have thw surveyor buy your neighbors property and give it to you. All is good then. You have 10 acres for the price of 5. Probably the cheap solution in this case.

Similar thing happened after the Oakland Hills Firestorm Destroyed 3000 homes...

The city went in to establish monuments and incorrectly identified a major point causing an entire area of 30 plus homes to be built 17 feet from the true boundary.

The city ended up buying several of the parcels and redoing all the affected deeds to make everyone whole. No one lost any property and a few even where given a few feet from the city land that was consumed making everyone whole.

Bottom line... it definitely is something that can only be settled in a legal setting... I second the idea of buying the neighbors acre to make you whole.

 

[ray66v]

Survey and boundary mistakes can often be caught by simply taking the legal description, (the drawing with all the measurements), of your new property and checking it against any survey stakes or assumed boundaries to see that they match before building, or planting anything.

I once had a neighbor move in a few doors down, when I lived near the city. He had "Big Trees" come and plant a good sized tree at what he though was the back of his property. Later in the day I went over with another neighbor, while the new neighbor was admiring the new tree. We said nice tree, why didn't you plant it in your yard? He had made the assumption that this was part of his yard based on the fact that his neighbors had grass, and gardens going back to this point. They were all encroaching on the farm land behind them! A few minutes with a tape measure upon purchase of the property, would have been a good idea.

The tree was cut down a few years later, by the owners of a new home built behind him. They wanted a pool, right where he had planted the tree.

 

[schmism]

The surveyor said in the letter he wants to just apply for a variance to cover his mistake.

first dont assume he made such an egregious mistake.

step one would have it surveyed a second time by a second surveyor. Ask to meet with the orginal surveyor and have him explane how he F'd it up so bad. I suggest you bring along your second surveyor so that if he starts tossing out technical terms the other guy can call BS when he has to. (or at least will let you know when the meeting is over)

After its verified that it is actually incorrect, the thing he is asking for is not quite a variance. (did he use that word or did you?)

Generally if the agreed upon line some 8 years ago is acceptable to both common parties, you can just file a quit clame deed saying you agree to the new line (a 0$ land transfer) draw a line in the sand, i dont claim your half, you dont claim mine, everyone is happy.

Generally lawers fee's for sorting it out, addtional survey's to sort it out, fees to record new deeds etc should all be paid by the surveyor that made the mistake and his insurance.

 

[TedLaRue]

JN4310,

You seem to be pretty sensible about things, which I admire. But when considering what you'll settle for, consider that someday you or your heirs might be trying to sell your place. Don't settle for less than what you think those buyers would be happy with.

 

[schmism]

Survey and boundary mistakes can often be caught by simply taking the legal description, (the drawing with all the measurements), of your new property and checking it against any survey stakes or assumed boundaries to see that they match before building, or planting anything.
.

that doesnt always work. Boundries writen by lawers often dont close because they lack the techincal expertise to properly lay it out. Or a discription of "owns the northwest corner of the northwest quadrant of the 4th district etc) is by rule, a _____ tract of land (50 acers or something) a boundry is then writen up later that specifies angles, distances. 1) that discrption doesnt close, and 2) comes up with 48.5 acers.

Most people can not walk a 375.45' line heading 34.589 degees westing and expect that your buildings are were they are supposed to be.

his (incorrect) deed could have been writen up to close, useing the wrong starting cords. so you could walk the perfect boundry as recoreded and assumed your buildings were well inside it. only problem is, it was off

 

[KPark]

1st, Survey again by a reputable surveyor. This will let you know just how bad things are and how they could have made such a HUGE error.
2nd, you can buy the mis-judged piece from the neighbor. I know that would put them under the minimum 5 acres, but they can "borrow" the land from you to make zoning requirement (you promise not to build dwelling on said land *sheds and such don't count* so that the borrower can have proper acreage. Borrower has no rights to said land, just the zoning requirement for dwellings).
3rd, if you want justice, you'll have to do the lawyer thing. The borrowing thing for zoning purposes seems like a pretty good bet without ruffling feathers.

 

[WayneB]

Living in a small town and being a member of our ZBA I have seen cases like this many times. Normally it is a situation where someone in the past has built within the setbacks. Most of these cases are situations that happened before zoning and it is not a problem.

Other cases are when someone wants to sell a piece of property and there is a question about a building being within the setbacks. This requires a variance and if it was an honest mistake and it will not cause harm to other abutters or property values in the immediate area we will most likely vote to give the variance. Although there has been one case that we denied a variance because the homeowner had gone ahead and built a structure that went beyond the scope of his building permit. In that case he was forced to take down the addition he had added to the structure.

With your situation I wonder:

1. How the neighbor feels about this?
2. Have you spoken to the surveyor and if so what does he recommend to resolve the issue?
3. Have you opened the door and spoken to your town building inspector and zoning board of adjustment (ZBA).

If we had something like this in our town I am sure we would have a ZBA meeting and if there were no abutters that filed a complaint then we would most likely pass a variance due to the timeframe that the buildings have been standing. The setbacks would be determined at the time the buildings were constructed and not present day setbacks.