Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful?

   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful?
  • Thread Starter
#41  
MossRoad said:
By looking at the chart for the engine specs you quoted and plugging in the numbers for the diesel...

Torque = (HP * 5252)/ RPM

T = (20 * 5252)/ 3600

T = 29.2 ft pounds of torque

The gasser is rated for 7+ more ft pounds of torque when both engines are run at 3600 RPM. At that RPM you will have less power than the gasser.

There might be something wrong with the math here. The Yanmar is rated at 20hp gross at 3600 rpm which I compute to 29.2 ft/lb. The Kohler is rated at 22hp at 3600 rpm, which I compute to 32.1 ft/lb. By my math, rusty as it is, it seems that the result should be +2.9 ft/lbs difference. But I doubt that 3600 rpm is where the tractor will be operated most of the time. In any case, forget the speculating. Hopefully in a couple months, I'll have first hand experience to report and we'll know for sure.
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful? #42  
billbill1 said:
If it's worth it to you, then go for it. I think you'll be plesantly surprised and have more power than ever. Plus you have a project to work on. I have thought of doing the same on my Wheel Horse but I have a horizontal engine that uses two shafts. I like diesel engines better. Is the engine you bought water cooled? I look forward to following your progress, please keep us informed.

I saw this at an antique tractor show last year, neat install and the guy was driving it around and said it had tons of torque, he ordered the engine from Canada, Chinese diesel engine shipped in as generator parts. Here's a few pics.
 

Attachments

  • WhD1.JPG
    WhD1.JPG
    103.6 KB · Views: 406
  • WhD2.JPG
    WhD2.JPG
    112.1 KB · Views: 338
  • WhD3.JPG
    WhD3.JPG
    102.8 KB · Views: 287
  • WhD4.JPG
    WhD4.JPG
    115.6 KB · Views: 284
  • WhD5.JPG
    WhD5.JPG
    122.6 KB · Views: 285
  • WhD6.JPG
    WhD6.JPG
    113.7 KB · Views: 284
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful?
  • Thread Starter
#43  
Billbill1, Blackbird: The gasser is AIR COOLED and the Yanmar is water cooled. The radiator comes with it, a special aluminum unit that mounts on top of the engine since it is a vertical shaft engine.

Mossroad: Regarding the batteries, tires, carb, etc; as another member has mentioned, most of these consumer products don't have longevity in mind. While the quality of these tractors do go up from lawn tractors (not rated for ground engaging work) to the garden tractors (transaxle rated for ground engaging work), some things don't change. These are the tires (thin skinned components made by Carlisle that leak air like a sieve). Once they go flat, the sidewalls have so little support that they distort and separate from rims which makes them even less likely to hold air. While inner tubes would reduce this somewhat, I fixed the problem with aftermarket tires that were much thicker. When I compared both tires off the rims, the difference in quality was readily apparent. The battery issue: The OEM calls for lawn equipment batteries that are not very good quality. They have low capacity and don't hold charges very well. They self discharge over time and as with most lead acid batteries, when they remain discharge for any significant period of time, they are dead-dead. I've tried to revive many but have never had any success. One website that rates batteries based of type considers the life of these to be 1-2 years. I fixed the problem on mine by replacing/modifyig the tray to accommodate a full size auto battery and then went one step further with the optima. It has been 5 years now and the battery shows no signs of weakening. I also let it sit in the tractor the entire offseason and the battery shows no evidence of self discharge. It starts up strong each spring. As for the carburetor issue, regardless if it is briggs or kohler, I've never had good luck with them. I've rebuilt them several times now and the last time around, the fuel cutoff solenoid began sticking causing constant flooding (which literally meant that the gas was pouring out of carb) and wouldn't stop until I pinched off the line. That time around, the carb needed replacement and that was NOT CHEAP. Some of the problems could be contributed to the fuel itself not winterizing well and causing a bunch of problems but I figure that the high pressure of the diesel injection system will have less problems with offseason storage. Many folks report that their diesels start right up after periods of very long storage.

Anyhow, I figured I fixed almost everything else to my liking. This might be the last link. Oh, BTW in case anyone is wondering: I've had zero problems with the transaxle and mower in the past 10 years. A few broken or tossed belts but some of it my fault for not keeping the mower deck clean/maintained.
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful? #44  
Superduper,

As you posted, small gas engines are (cough cough) rated (cough) optimistically. Or maybe that is spelled opti-mystically? There are some that are "estimated" based on displacement etc. Others are run without any accessories, sucking cold air and they are posting PEAK numbers, not continuous numbers. Peak is 20-30% higher and has nothing to do with a working engine that will be lumbering along for hours.

My guess is that you will either not notice a change or will notice a positive power improvement.

jb
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful? #45  
That looks just like my C175-Milkman, thanks for sharing that!!;)
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful? #46  
Soundguy said:
Back to the pully issue, and rpm issues.

I'd think you only have to swap to a larger pulley ont he engine.. nothing else.

Belt and Pulley experts may say I've got this concept screwed up but heres my take on it...

Somehow you have to get the blades spinning at the recommended RPM or you are going to snap belts galore especially if you have a very torquey engine. You need high speed and momentum at the blades (not just power) otherwise the blades will stop or slow down dramatically every time a little twig gets jammed between the blades and the deck. And when that happens a belt will snap unless theres an allowance for plenty of belt slippage somewhere. Now on my Stihl ride-on mower much of this essential slippage is provided at the engine pulley so I think that putting a bigger pulley at the engine would reduce this slippage and lead to more belt snaps. (I could be wrong but I'm guessing that a bigger pulley would provide too much grip.) So I'd suggest you need a smaller pulley (or pulleys) at the deck to boost your blade speed but still provide slippage when you need it.

Top quality belts are very expensive and I busted plenty before I discovered that the best preventative measure is to run the engine and (consequently the blades) at near max rpms's. In fact Stihls 'fix' to prevent belt snaps in later models was simply to adjust the throttle stop to allow the B&S engine to run faster.
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful? #47  
As far as HP ratings on gas engines go, I can relate one story to you. A few years ago, one of my friends who owns a lawn and garden shop ordered some equipment with 18 HP Briggs engines. When the equipment arrived it had 15 HP motors. He phoned the distributor and was reassured they would correct the situation. The next week he recieved some 18 HP decals in the mail.:eek:
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful? #48  
If the yanmar runs slower than the gasser.. then you can increase the yanmar pully to get the same spee don the lower pulley as the gasser had.

soundguy

alchemysa said:
Belt and Pulley experts may say I've got this concept screwed up but heres my take on it...

Somehow you have to get the blades spinning at the recommended RPM or you are going to snap belts galore especially if you have a very torquey engine. You need high speed and momentum at the blades (not just power) otherwise the blades will stop or slow down dramatically every time a little twig gets jammed between the blades and the deck. And when that happens a belt will snap unless theres an allowance for plenty of belt slippage somewhere. Now on my Stihl ride-on mower much of this essential slippage is provided at the engine pulley so I think that putting a bigger pulley at the engine would reduce this slippage and lead to more belt snaps. (I could be wrong but I'm guessing that a bigger pulley would provide too much grip.) So I'd suggest you need a smaller pulley (or pulleys) at the deck to boost your blade speed but still provide slippage when you need it.

Top quality belts are very expensive and I busted plenty before I discovered that the best preventative measure is to run the engine and (consequently the blades) at near max rpms's. In fact Stihls 'fix' to prevent belt snaps in later models was simply to adjust the throttle stop to allow the B&S engine to run faster.
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful? #49  
Soundguy said:
If the yanmar runs slower than the gasser.. then you can increase the yanmar pully to get the same spee don the lower pulley as the gasser had.

soundguy


You proabably missed my point because i didnt explain myself very well. My point was that increasing pulley size at the yanmar will cause more belt snaps. Reducing pulley size at the deck would be a better option if its possible. (Its just a theory. I could be wrong).
 
   / Switch 22hp gas to 18hp diesel, will it be less powerful?
  • Thread Starter
#50  
Regarding the belt and pulley issue, I don't think there is one, issue that is.

The presumption is that the gas engine will be operating at a higher rpm than the diesel therefore the mower blade will be too slow for optimum operation. I looked up the stats and both the Yanmar and the Gasser are rated at 3600 rpm so that shouldn't be a problem. Personally, I don't believe that the gas engine is running at 3600 rpms anyhow when throttle is moved to max position.

I've included a news release article with great info on this engine. Apparently, Yanmar intended it for uses exactly like what i have in mind.

A thought and question did cross my mind though. In a gas powered car, it takes very little throttle pressure to run an engine at 3000 rpm. Put that car in gear and at the same throttle position, the car might go 20mph. If you were then able to depress the throttle further, to WOT, then you might go 100mph. In a tractor, pushing the throttle to max before putting a load on it would be like a 3000 rpm idle, right? It can't truly be WOT because if you were to operate a car engine at a true WOT position, it would blow up in 10 seconds. But in a diesel powered vehicle, there doesn't seem to be much difference in power between a 1/3 throttle to 3/3 throttle, at least not the type of difference you would see in a gasoline powered vehicle. So my question is wouldn't gas powered engines (for tractor type use) be more effective and powerful if they had a automotive type of gas pedal to truly utilize WOT?
 

Attachments

  • Yanmar DJC.pdf
    91.5 KB · Views: 472

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

1992 Peterbilt 377 Sleeper Cab (A52748)
1992 Peterbilt 377...
2019 FREIGHTLINER CASCADIA TANDEM AXLE SLEEPER (A52576)
2019 FREIGHTLINER...
1995 BEALL TRAILER FUEL TRANSPORT PUP TRAILER (A52472)
1995 BEALL TRAILER...
CLARK GCS20MB 4K CUSHION TIRE LPG FORKLIFT (A52472)
CLARK GCS20MB 4K...
2010 Ford Edge SE SUV (A51694)
2010 Ford Edge SE...
2023 NEW HOLLAND WAGON TONGUE AND LOADING CHUTE FOR NEW HOLLAND SQUARE BALERS (A52748)
2023 NEW HOLLAND...
 
Top