Switched from R4's to R1's on my B3200, review and pics

[jimmyj]

I kinda wish I had Ag's too. The R4's are good, and they have served me well but manoman your pictures tell a great story! Glad you are happy with your choice.

 

[Verticaltrx]

Are the fronts load rated high enough for your loader ?
Many are NOT !

The thing I find a little "questionable" is your claim that you can now push over trees - implying that before you couldn't ?

Now a B3200 is still a B3200 and weighs about what a B3200 weighs.
I doubt that it's ability to push over trees just by leaning on them increases THAT MUCH as a function of rear tire pattern.
{saplings, maybe}

What little tree pushing I have done has been with the tractor stationary, i.e. by bringing the bucket down the trunk, not by driving forwards.
When the front of the tractor rears up things are a little more under control this way than if I were driving "over" the tree.
Things can still get "hairy", but I think the risk of forces getting off center are less.

BTW, I can get 43% more ballast in the R4s than in the R1s and they are tougher around roots and rocks - obviously I am not SOLD on ALL the virtues of R1s (-:

As to the load rating on the front tires, I don't have any idea. All of the writing on them is in Japanese, so I couldn't tell you. However, at the proper PSI they squat very little with a full bucket of dirt. They do seem to be more substantial than your average cheap generic 7-12. I am a bit more careful with them though, I do realize they aren't as tough as R4s. I can also tell you that until about 15yrs ago, nearly every B-series came with either Ags or Turfs (Aside from the TLBs). Most all of the B8200's, B9200's and a lot of B2710's & B2910's had Ag tires and are a similar size tractor to the B3200.

Obviously I could still push over trees the size of those pictured before, but it took a good bit more effort. Before there was a lot more digging, spinning tires, moving to different sides of the tree, etc. I don't have any quantitative evidence on any of this, but my seat of the pants experience tells me that these jobs are going much easier than before, and that's enough for me.

For those that don't think there is that much difference in traction between different tires, go watch an antique tractor pull. Even with all the tractors having R1 tires, just the tread pattern itself can make a huge difference. The 23* tires seem to far out-pull the old 45* tires or the Long/Short Bar. I can also attest to that, my NAA has a LSB tire on one side, and a 23* tire on the other (both R1s) and the LSB always spins first.



Thanks for all the replies and comments. Hopefully this thread can help some people who were debating on R1's vs R4's. Having had both sets on the same tractor I think it's a pretty fair comparison. I'll try to provide some more info and pics in different conditions when I get a chance.

 

[PHS79]

Sometimes I wish that I had R1's on the L3600GST, especially when doing alot of loader work and working in muddy conditions. But being that the L3600 runs a 84" finish mower and is also used as our lawn mower the R4's are as aggresive as I dare get.

 

[Dargo]

I have a complete set of R1 wheels and tires and R4 wheels and tires for my larger tractor and have had them for about 4 years now. I find that I use the R4's about 80% of the time and the R1's about 20% of the time. Only for heavy mud and snow do I use the R1's. The rest of the time the R4's do a better job for me since they don't do as much damage to the turf or cleat up the ground nearly as bad.

With a 1 yard bucket on my tractor I completely blew the side out of an R1 tire doing some heavy loader work. That's with the R1 aired up to about 5psi over it's limit (to try to avoid rim damage). Having both is nice, but if I had to pick only one design, hands down, it would be R4's for me. Heck, even with a lot of snow last winter and a lot of mud I didn't bother to put my R1's on. All 4 of them are loaded and I have to use a sling rig on my forklift to change them to prevent a perhaps fatal accident. I'm a reasonably big strong fella, but I don't really want to play catch with a 1300 pound rear tire. I'm afraid it would ruin my day.

But, like the original poster, I enjoy having the ability to switch back and forth when conditions create different circumstances. On my tractor, the biggest R4's I could find were about 6" shorter than my R1 tires (rears). Even with the R1's being loaded, I seem to have better stability with shorter and much wider tires. I always use the R4's when bush hogging corn stalks. I must grow iron corn. I can't tell you how many times I've had a simple corn stalk blow a good name brand R1 tire. And, no, they don't warranty that.

 

[Verticaltrx]

I have a complete set of R1 wheels and tires and R4 wheels and tires for my larger tractor and have had them for about 4 years now. I find that I use the R4's about 80% of the time and the R1's about 20% of the time. Only for heavy mud and snow do I use the R1's. The rest of the time the R4's do a better job for me since they don't do as much damage to the turf or cleat up the ground nearly as bad.

With a 1 yard bucket on my tractor I completely blew the side out of an R1 tire doing some heavy loader work. That's with the R1 aired up to about 5psi over it's limit (to try to avoid rim damage). Having both is nice, but if I had to pick only one design, hands down, it would be R4's for me. Heck, even with a lot of snow last winter and a lot of mud I didn't bother to put my R1's on. All 4 of them are loaded and I have to use a sling rig on my forklift to change them to prevent a perhaps fatal accident. I'm a reasonably big strong fella, but I don't really want to play catch with a 1300 pound rear tire. I'm afraid it would ruin my day.

But, like the original poster, I enjoy having the ability to switch back and forth when conditions create different circumstances. On my tractor, the biggest R4's I could find were about 6" shorter than my R1 tires (rears). Even with the R1's being loaded, I seem to have better stability with shorter and much wider tires. I always use the R4's when bush hogging corn stalks. I must grow iron corn. I can't tell you how many times I've had a simple corn stalk blow a good name brand R1 tire. And, no, they don't warranty that.

I can see that on larger, heavier tractors that the R4s would be at less of a disadvantage.

I completely understand about the stubble damage, I've seen a nearly brand new 20.8x38 Firestone R1 with the center almost eaten out of it from corn stubble. Some of these new corn varieties do have very tough stalks. The sweet corn stalks in my garden are about the worst my little tractor will see. :laughing:

 

[Verticaltrx]

Some other observations I have noticed:

The front wheels have a different off-set than the R4 tire/wheel combo. The wheel disc is much more centered in the wheel, which combined with the narrower tires means a lot more room between the tire and the steering arm/axle. It would be completely possible to run tire chains on the front now, it looks like there is 1.5-2" between the tire and the steering arm now, with the R4s there was only about 1/2" between the tires and the steering arm. Not sure if this means more mud will get on the seal area or not, but it will be possible to wash it out now. With the old setup you basically had to pull the wheel off to clean in there.

I've also noticed that it is easier to hit the front axle bevel gear cases on rocks and such. I was working in some pretty rough areas with lots of big rocks and noticed I was grind them into stuff more now since they are not as protected inside the wheel. It wasn't a big problem, but something to watch out for. I would hate to tear one of the oil plugs off of them.

From the rear the tractor does seem a bit narrower, not sure how this will affect stability, I'll test it out on some of the steep hills soon when it's time to do fall bush hogging. If it seems more tippy I might add wheel spacers.

 

[Reg]

Some other observations I have noticed:

The front wheels have a different off-set than the R4 tire/wheel combo. The wheel disc is much more centered in the wheel, which combined with the narrower tires means a lot more room between the tire and the steering arm/axle. It would be completely possible to run tire chains on the front now, it looks like there is 1.5-2" between the tire and the steering arm now, with the R4s there was only about 1/2" between the tires and the steering arm. Not sure if this means more mud will get on the seal area or not, but it will be possible to wash it out now. With the old setup you basically had to pull the wheel off to clean in there.

I've also noticed that it is easier to hit the front axle bevel gear cases on rocks and such. I was working in some pretty rough areas with lots of big rocks and noticed I was grind them into stuff more now since they are not as protected inside the wheel. It wasn't a big problem, but something to watch out for. I would hate to tear one of the oil plugs off of them.

From the rear the tractor does seem a bit narrower, not sure how this will affect stability, I'll test it out on some of the steep hills soon when it's time to do fall bush hogging. If it seems more tippy I might add wheel spacers.

Yes, R1s are narrower and typically taller, so with the same center line the overall width of the tractor is less - resulting in a somewhat tippier tractor, so watch out for that.
On SOME tractors the R1s offer a greater selection of width adjustments than the equivalent R4s, so that might make up for it.
Flipping center dishes, side to side and in/outside of lug bolt hole tubes (or whatever they're called) can offer up to 8 choices.

I think MOST Asian and Japanese compacts use R1s as their design center, but that doesn't mean that they are best run with R1s - comments about rice paddy environments withheld.

In some situations the R4s will definitely provide better shielding from ground hazards - and I still prefer the 50 vs 35 gallon ballast capacity and added width of R4s for what I do, how I do it and where I do it (-:

 

[crazyal]

I didn't even think about R4 when I ordered my tractor. I read all about how R4 were tougher but everyone I knew who worked in the woods said the same thing. "They quickly fill up with mud or dirt and spin". They all said if you get chains you can go anywhere. The friends with R1s never had problems. Since chains are murder on roots and I wasn't planning on driving on my lawn the choice was clear for me.

I have made several trips across the lawn and the only time I do damage is when I spin, brand new R1s will quickly rip up soil. I'll even switch over to R1s on my Case BH when I need new tires.

 

[Verticaltrx]

After rereading this thread it occurred to me I never updated this on the snow performance. The performance in the snow is probably the biggest improvement of all. With the R4 tires anything more than about 6-8" of snow was very difficult to get through, especially on any kind of grade. The pics below was with 26" of snow. The front R1 tires were completely out of sight but it still churned it's way through, I was amazed.

 

[SPYDERLK]

After rereading this thread it occurred to me I never updated this on the snow performance. The performance in the snow is probably the biggest improvement of all. With the R4 tires anything more than about 6-8" of snow was very difficult to get through, especially on any kind of grade. The pics below was with 26" of snow. The front R1 tires were completely out of sight but it still churned it's way through, I was amazed.

View attachment 382240

Amazing what theyll do isnt it. ... 3 or 4 yrs ago we had a couple feet of snow accompanied by trees downed on fences. The worst were at the bottom of a 15 degree hill in a narrow field. I had to work on the tree forward; lifting off the fence with grapple, cutting free from stump, and then backing up the hill with it because there was no room to turn around or go past to get on the bottom side. I found that whipping the fronts rapidly left and right enabled me to maintain progress with the 7520. I was surprised to be able in this reduced directional traction condition for the R1s.

... Also, even with the 2 ton FEL lift capability I have never had any problems with the R1s if I just aired them up enuf to prevent excessive squat with the load.
larry