Syncro Shuttle vs HST

   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #1  

Scottybdiving

New member
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
20
Location
Spicewood, TX
Tractor
Kubota L2501 & Scag Turf Tiger II
I am looking to purchase a 40-60 HP tractor this year. The XR 4150 / 4155 seems to fit my needs. I have 18 ac, 50% groomed, 50% woods. I mow the groomed portion with a commercial ZTR. I want a shredder, FEL, forks. and a tiller. I was a Construction Super for 35 years but my experience with HST on heavy equipment was limited. Most used a power shuttle type transmission. Just looking for some pros and cons of both.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #2  
Running xr3135c with shuttle shift suits my needs. However with tier 4-5 emissions on these tractors above 25 hp a hydrostatic is best option to keep unit from coding. Typically hydrostatic requires more RPMs then clutch. Hindsight I would have bought Hydrostatic. Regarding power these tractors come with 3 speed transmission low, medium and high. These ranges optimize torque band in the hydro. All of these hydrostatics on compact tractor are bulletproof if you change oil and filters. Everyone has there own thoughts you will hear mixed thoughts but in general agreement. End of the day hydrostatic adds in additional 1-1.5K in cost. If your budget will accept the cost then it痴 ideal choice. That is if you plan to use FEL more so than rear attachments. If buying the tractor to use rear attachments then shuttle shift is plenty good enough. I would recommend LS for price point, kubota and Deere are costly but you buying established product line. Kioti I owned prior it was workhorse but shy on torque. Mahindra not sure. Looked at TYM they are dated unit. RK tractor service is good with some stores others not so. Rule thumb buy based upon Dealer you like and can trust. When you need service it痴 that dealer you chose that makes the difference. Brands quality are close but costs vary depending on brand. Best of luck It痴 like a marriage try to pick the right one and you keep it for along time. If not it痴 a messy separation. Been there on another tractor in my younger years, another story altogether.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #3  
View attachment 658864. My M6040 Kubota has hydraulic shuttle shift. With the Land Pride grapple, RimGuard filled rear tires & Rhino rear blade it weighs 10,100#. This type transmission works well for me.

++ on trustworthy dealer. I've never needed service but they are always happy to answer any questions.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #4  
I noticed on the original post that tilling is mentioned;
I am not a hydro fan but a geared tractor would need the creeper option transmission to use a tiller.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #5  
I noticed on the original post that tilling is mentioned;
I am not a hydro fan but a geared tractor would need the creeper option transmission to use a tiller.

Does it? I've never found the need of a creeper gear when using the tiller. I usually use 1st or 2nd Low.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #6  
Does it? I've never found the need of a creeper gear when using the tiller. I usually use 1st or 2nd Low.

I don't know I haven't run a tiller since around 1980.
I was using a Farmall 300 and the ground had to be plowed well before the tiller would work well,
otherwise the ground speed was to high for it to do a decent job.
The Farmall 300 in first was around 2 mph, my Branson 8050 is about 1 mph.
What speed is normal for a tiller, especially in unbroken ground?
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #7  
I don't know I haven't run a tiller since around 1980.
I was using a Farmall 300 and the ground had to be plowed well before the tiller would work well,
otherwise the ground speed was to high for it to do a decent job.
The Farmall 300 in first was around 2 mph, my Branson 8050 is about 1 mph.
What speed is normal for a tiller, especially in unbroken ground?

I don't know the right speed. I usually go by feel for the soil conditions at the time I'm tilling.

But looking at the speed chart for my tractor, 1st is 0.7 mph and 2nd is 1.1 mph. 1st in M range is the 2 mph that the Farmall had, so yes, it was a bit too fast.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #8  
For what it’s worth...
I own a mahindra 3550 hst, 90% of the time hst is great some days I wish I had pst for pullling a house up the hill..
The tractor has 1200 hours in it and have used it like a rented mule, she works hard and gets the jobs done.
Put her in low range and you can push about anything.
Would I buy the tractor again, yes and no.
Yea for how well built it is, non for the service aspect, trying to find a mechanic that works for mahindra is like finding a unicorn...
Filters are pricy and Napa does not cross over to mahindra parts.
If I did it again new holand or case would be my choice as they are still cheaper than green and orange paint and have an actual parts department.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #9  
Does it? I've never found the need of a creeper gear when using the tiller. I usually use 1st or 2nd Low.
Same here, and I've been doing custom tilling for more years than some of these guys been alive!

SR
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #10  
I have an XR4150 open cab, shuttle. Note that this is not a power shuttle. You must use the clutch. I also use a tiller, subsoiler, rotary mower, ditch bank flail mower, FEL with forks, hay spear, bucket, and grapple. I like my shuttle. I am used to using the clutch. Modern clutches are built better and last a long time if run right. I felt the shuttle was right for me. That said, if I was doing mostly FEL work than the HST might be better. My mower is HST, but I like the greater power pulling up the hills. As far as the trans, it is 16 speeds. It can go slow enough. I would have loved a power shuttle but not available on this size tractor. Make sure you test drive any and everything. I like the way I sat on the tractor, the pedals, and controls. If it does not fell like you can stay on it for several hours, find something else that fits you. For most of use this is a long time investment.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #11  
This debate.

When I first set foot on a tractor, it was a 1971 International 656 open platform 2 wheel drive hydrostatic tractor with an FEL. It's what I learned on, I was 8 years old. The forward/reverse was controlled with a lever operated by the left hand up by the steering wheel. Its what we called the "little tractor." It was called that because we also had the "big tractor" a 1970's International 1066 with a cab. It was a gear tractor with a clutch. Harder to operate, especially for an 8 year old. The small tractor, I spend many hours on tilling, going as slow as possible. It was a work horse. When I figured out the clutch in the big tractor, that became my favorite.

Fast-forward 30 years. I am looking to buy a new tractor for my uses. One of which is tilling. I pour a ton of research into brands, features, emissions garbage, best value, and of course gave some though between HST or Gear. I made up a Pro/Con list for both:

HST Pros:
-Easy to operate (even my wife can do it)
-can go very slow
-foot controlled vs old school had operated

HST Cons:
-Extra filter
-no foot throttle
-more expensive
-No clutch
-brakes on the wrong side
-less powerful
-Need to set cruise control for extended periods of motion such as field work

Shuttle Pros:
-Easy for me to operate
-preferred for doing loader work (personal choice)
-foot throttle
-Don't need to set cruise control
-less expensive
-single hydro filter
-brakes on the correct side
-more powerful

Shuttle Cons:
-harder for inexperienced operators to learn
-Range 1, Gear 1 is a bit fast for tilling

Those are the biggest reasons for me. I got my tractor with a tiller. I remember that International "little tractor," just barely moving forward while tilling. On this LS, I shifted into range 1, gear 1, engaged the PTO on the tiller for the first time, revved up the engine to 540 PTO RPM, and dropped it into the hard clay... the tractor, not equipped with a creeper gear, moved slow enough to till that hard dry clay. That was my test. To be honest, it could be a bit slower. Seems like it was hammering the solid ground kinda hard and jumping a bit. But after only two passes, the tiller ground up that clay down 7 inches.

For me, having grown up with both styles, spent many hours on both, I prefer the gear driven. My wife doesn't drive the tractor much at all, not because of HST vs Shuttle, but more because that is not really her world. She will drive it, from time to time, especially when I need help. But it's not her "thing." When I feel my son is old enough to start driving it, I will teach him on this shuttle shift tractor. Doing so, he will know how to drive both.

Doing loader work with my shuttle is easy, and fast. Don't have any complaints about that at all.

I wanted something I was more comfortable with, and for me, that was the shuttle shift.

Whatever your choice, do it for the right reasons. Don't let someone talk you into something you don't want.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #12  
BUddy of mine recently bought the xr 4140 hst . He loves it . Together we have 360 acres we hunt on . We do lots of mowing tilling digging pushing disking and seeding. Shuttles have slightly more power but hst is faster and more precise.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #13  
Great post quoted below.
This debate.

When I first set foot on a tractor, it was a 1971 International 656 open platform 2 wheel drive hydrostatic tractor with an FEL. It's what I learned on, I was 8 years old. The forward/reverse was controlled with a lever operated by the left hand up by the steering wheel. Its what we called the "little tractor." It was called that because we also had the "big tractor" a 1970's International 1066 with a cab. It was a gear tractor with a clutch. Harder to operate, especially for an 8 year old. The small tractor, I spend many hours on tilling, going as slow as possible. It was a work horse. When I figured out the clutch in the big tractor, that became my favorite.

Fast-forward 30 years. I am looking to buy a new tractor for my uses. One of which is tilling. I pour a ton of research into brands, features, emissions garbage, best value, and of course gave some though between HST or Gear. I made up a Pro/Con list for both:

HST Pros:
-Easy to operate (even my wife can do it)
-can go very slow
-foot controlled vs old school had operated

HST Cons:
-Extra filter
-no foot throttle
-more expensive
-No clutch
-brakes on the wrong side
-less powerful
-Need to set cruise control for extended periods of motion such as field work

Shuttle Pros:
-Easy for me to operate
-preferred for doing loader work (personal choice)
-foot throttle
-Don't need to set cruise control
-less expensive
-single hydro filter
-brakes on the correct side
-more powerful

Shuttle Cons:
-harder for inexperienced operators to learn
-Range 1, Gear 1 is a bit fast for tilling

Those are the biggest reasons for me. I got my tractor with a tiller. I remember that International "little tractor," just barely moving forward while tilling. On this LS, I shifted into range 1, gear 1, engaged the PTO on the tiller for the first time, revved up the engine to 540 PTO RPM, and dropped it into the hard clay... the tractor, not equipped with a creeper gear, moved slow enough to till that hard dry clay. That was my test. To be honest, it could be a bit slower. Seems like it was hammering the solid ground kinda hard and jumping a bit. But after only two passes, the tiller ground up that clay down 7 inches.

For me, having grown up with both styles, spent many hours on both, I prefer the gear driven. My wife doesn't drive the tractor much at all, not because of HST vs Shuttle, but more because that is not really her world. She will drive it, from time to time, especially when I need help. But it's not her "thing." When I feel my son is old enough to start driving it, I will teach him on this shuttle shift tractor. Doing so, he will know how to drive both.

Doing loader work with my shuttle is easy, and fast. Don't have any complaints about that at all.

I wanted something I was more comfortable with, and for me, that was the shuttle shift.

Whatever your choice, do it for the right reasons. Don't let someone talk you into something you don't want.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #14  
I have owned a straight gear tractor (my first... an old Ford 1710). Used it no problem... that was all I had.

Jump ahead 25 years (tractorless during this time), bought a new SCUT TLB, which met my needs at the time. It was my first HST. Took a while to get used to it, but did have the “ pros “ listed above. I did like it after a while.

My needs changed and I sold the SCUT and purchased a small compact (twice the size and weight), same HP (25), and a shuttle shift. I really like it. Have what seems to be more power, feels like I have more control when ground engaging.

Not sure if this is really relevant to this post, but now I have a bit of a dilemma.... I injured my left knee shortly after getting the shuttle shift... two surgeries later, it is not healed. I am awaiting a third surgery (full replacement). Now remember, a clutch with the left foot.... I will not be able to use the tractor for months while recuperating.

My neighbor just got his new HST tractor... I have used / driven it quite a few times... my first thought... man, this is easy! I should have gotten an HST!
I have actually considered trading in my shuttle for an HST... I just cannot take a $4,000 loss on my tractor....

That sums it up... I will now always go for an HST if I have a choice.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #15  
What if it had been your right knee? I have had a problem with my right foot for 18 months, I still drive. But I have to use my heel to brake.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #16  
What if it had been your right knee? I have had a problem with my right foot for 18 months, I still drive. But I have to use my heel to brake.

I would probably do as you, but I hardly ever have to use the brake (except parking brake, used frequently). The brake is easier to use ( push), except when setting the parking brake. The clutch is much harder to push, plus pushing it further, much more frequently.

When I drove my neighbors HST, the pedals were very easy to move, hardly any pressure. Even if I had a problem with my right knee, I still think it would be easier to use.

I really do like my shuttle shift, maybe I am just becoming anxious about the surgery and there will only be a brief delay before I can use the tractor.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST
  • Thread Starter
#17  
This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time.

This debate.

I have owned a straight gear tractor (my first... an old Ford 1710). Used it no problem... that was all I had.

My 1st tractor was a Ford 2000. I did custom plowing and shredding for hire during the summer. Only it's been about 44 years in between for me.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST
  • Thread Starter
#18  
View attachment 658864. My M6040 Kubota has hydraulic shuttle shift. With the Land Pride grapple, RimGuard filled rear tires & Rhino rear blade it weighs 10,100#. This type transmission works well for me.

++ on trustworthy dealer. I've never needed service but they are always happy to answer any questions.

The LS dealer is the closest and within 10 min. From all the reviews that I can read they have a very good reputation.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #19  
I just sold a NH with hydro and bought a Kubota with shuttle gear. Both have advantages as mentioned many times on here. I loved the hydro when backing etc, but hate it when plowing, rough bushhogging etc. It had more power loss than I like. The new tractor so far has been good for the most part, I don't miss the hydro as the extra power outweights the benefiis of hydro in my situation.
 
   / Syncro Shuttle vs HST #20  
The LS dealer is the closest and within 10 min. From all the reviews that I can read they have a very good reputation.

I just noticed your location. You can go see John, tell him Ted sent you over. He will treat you right before and after. I purchased mine from him, my neighbor did too. Couple other guys on here also use them.
 

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