I am reluctant to enter this holy arena, but I have not seen this question addressed before. My last oil change (40hrs. ago) I used a synthetic blend oil. Manufacturer is a local oil company by the name of Mystic. This oil is called SX-8 Synthetic Blend 10W-30. It is now time to get ready for the next oil change and I plan to use the same oil again. The price is $2.39 per quart, about twice as much as dino. I will continue to change oil at 50hr. intervals no matter what I put in the tractor so I'm pondering if the added cost is worth it. What is the story with these 'blends'? How much is a quart of pure synthetic? I'm not wishing to debate the pros and cons of each type, but I've not read anywhere about this hybrid critter before. Hope this topic doesn't get out of hand /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
Synthetic Blends
- Thread starter RickM
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gerard
Veteran Member
Don't know if I can answer your question but I went to all synthetic at my 50 hr and will continue to do so for future changes. I went with all Amsoil due to reputation and confidence in their products. A quart is almost 5$ so it's not cheap but I plan on having my tractor a LONG time and the extra cost is minor in the scheme of things compared to fuel, implements etc.
Mike H
Silver Member
I bet there is almost zero chance of this not getting out of hand. Just to be different, I'll offer something a smart fellow once told me: the difference between a feature and a benefit. A copy machine salesman was extolling the virtues of his company's latest product. After painstakingly detaling all of the benefits of the new unit, including the heavy duty wheels to facilitate moving the equipment around; he was informed by the buyer that the wheels might be worth something to somebody but he sure wasn't paying more for them because he needed a stationary machine. A benefit's nothing more than a feature if you don't use it.
Since you're going to change your oil at 50 hrs regardless, many of the benefits of a full synthetic just aren't going to matter to you. That's OK - personal choice.
The blend is a compromise product. It's a mixture whose cost, quality, performance, etc. will fall between a natural (that sure sounds like a funny way to refer to it!) and synthetic. One of the big advantages of a full synthetic is it's great VI. This isn't much of a benefit if your climate doesn't change or if you use different oils in summer and winter. A blend will not have a VI as high as a full synthetic, it will be higher than the 'natural'. I think you can pick any parameter of the natural, full synthetic, and blend and go through a similar compromise discussion.
This includes cost. I think you can figure out about how much of the blend is synthetic by looking at the cost of a comparable 'natural' and full synthetic. I work for a company that distributes a complete line of synthetic and blend industrial fluids (it's not our primary product, but since our products use them and we have a worldwide salesforce we're a logical distribution channel). We don't really make much more money on 5 gal bucket of a full synthetic than the blend (for you accountants, the gross margins are comparable). I would guess most outfits that carry a full product line would have the same situation.
Since you're going to change your oil at 50 hrs regardless, many of the benefits of a full synthetic just aren't going to matter to you. That's OK - personal choice.
The blend is a compromise product. It's a mixture whose cost, quality, performance, etc. will fall between a natural (that sure sounds like a funny way to refer to it!) and synthetic. One of the big advantages of a full synthetic is it's great VI. This isn't much of a benefit if your climate doesn't change or if you use different oils in summer and winter. A blend will not have a VI as high as a full synthetic, it will be higher than the 'natural'. I think you can pick any parameter of the natural, full synthetic, and blend and go through a similar compromise discussion.
This includes cost. I think you can figure out about how much of the blend is synthetic by looking at the cost of a comparable 'natural' and full synthetic. I work for a company that distributes a complete line of synthetic and blend industrial fluids (it's not our primary product, but since our products use them and we have a worldwide salesforce we're a logical distribution channel). We don't really make much more money on 5 gal bucket of a full synthetic than the blend (for you accountants, the gross margins are comparable). I would guess most outfits that carry a full product line would have the same situation.
Bird
Rest in Peace
MikeH, that's very well said, and I agree wholeheartedly. Of course, as you indicated, sometimes we want "features" that are not really a "benefit" to us, but if that's what someone wants and can afford, more power to'em./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Bird
Bird
gordon
Veteran Member
I'm in the process of getting a new tractor so I must decide on the oil to be used and I'm not totally made from one to the other. My current has over 7000 hrs on it and has a small amount of blow by. This was using dino oil now if I go with a blend or a full synthetic should I be able to get 14000 before signs of blow by? We may never know the answer to that unless I switch to a synthentic and keep the tractor for that amount of time, so it's our choice what oil we use---I guess the main thing is just change it!!!
But in the new tractor I have no idea which way to go my head has been spinning with the tractor details alone.
Gordon
But in the new tractor I have no idea which way to go my head has been spinning with the tractor details alone.
Gordon
Bird
Rest in Peace
Aaaah, Gordon, indecision is a terrible thing./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Fortunately, some of us, like Mark and I know which way to go and don't have to worry about things like that. I know the synthetic would be a waste of money, and Mark knows it's the best thing since nickel beer./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Bird
Bird
gordon
Veteran Member
HHHHHOOOOORRRRRRAAAAAAYYYYYY I've decided the best of both worlds A synthetic blend yea thats the ticket. I have not at this point and time seen enough cold hard info to switch to a pure synthetic. Now for the tranni thats another story because of the cooler operation it's a consideration. But for engine oil I'm leaning for a synthetic blend. Or just plain old dino oil it worked well on my current tractor.
I first have to get the new tractor before I worry about the oil.
Nickel beer is good /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon
I first have to get the new tractor before I worry about the oil.
Nickel beer is good /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Gordon
Billc
Gold Member
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Bird, I may be late in saying this, but congratulations on Poster of the Month. I appreciate all the advice you have given me over the past year! You've helped me make some good decisions concerning my tractor...and kept me from making some bad ones. Your experience is ALWAYS appreciated!
Bill Cook
Bill Cook
Bird
Rest in Peace
Now you're confusing me, Gordon. If you use a synthetic blend, does that mean you're only wasting half your money, or does it mean you're only getting half the benefits of synthetic?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Bird
Bird
Bird
Rest in Peace
Thanks for the kind words, Bill. I've sure learned a lot on the forum myself, and have a lot of fun.
Bird
Bird
Billc
Gold Member
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- Kubota 5400 4x4 with ROPS, canopy, 1001 loader, heavy duty quick release bucket with tooth bar, 280 Bush Hog brush cutter, 6' Bush Hog box blade, 6' Bush Hog plug aerator, 3 point hay spear, 6' Lands
Gordon, I didn't know or think much about synthetics until this board and especially Mark's posts. His posts got me thinking, reading, and studing on the subject. I am still no expert, but I've come a long way in a year.
From my point of view synthetics are better because they lower friction (think we all agree on this) and with less friction there is less heat. Heat is one of the leading killers of engines. Also you can keep sythetics in an engine longer between fluid changes. Having longer fluid changing intervals lowers the cost of having synthetics. So though they are more expensive at the outset, they end up being only a little more expensive...or the same price as regular oil, and do a better job of lowering the heat.
In your case you are looking at a blend. Why a blend? You said the blend is better than regular oil. O.K., since a blend is better than regular oil that leads me to wonder if a full synthetic is better than a blend. The other thing I wonder is if you do go to a blend or a synthetic why would you still change the oil at 50 hours? My thought is this: If you use a synthetic treat it as a synthetic...not regular oil.
Just so you know, I have regular oil in my tractor. I plan on getting a new one whenever they come out with a M series hydro. But I have been leaning toward switching it to full synthetics at the next service. I am putting Amsoil in my Dodge diesel this week and will probably switch my Ford diesel to full Amsoil before the year is out.
I faught this change over every step of the way 'cause of the cost..I hate to spend money, but now I don't think I am spending more money, rather I am saving money.
Gordon, I sold Electrolux vacuums door-to-door for 19 years. One question I got asked a lot was why would anyone pay $600 for a vacuum when they could buy a Hoover for $100. Good question. The Electrolux does cost more when you buy it, but because the dern things last so long, hold up so well, are serviced at your house, and do a much better job, they actually cost less than a Hoover over time. I guess I am finally starting to see synthetics in the same light. Like I said, it has taken a while.
From my point of view synthetics are better because they lower friction (think we all agree on this) and with less friction there is less heat. Heat is one of the leading killers of engines. Also you can keep sythetics in an engine longer between fluid changes. Having longer fluid changing intervals lowers the cost of having synthetics. So though they are more expensive at the outset, they end up being only a little more expensive...or the same price as regular oil, and do a better job of lowering the heat.
In your case you are looking at a blend. Why a blend? You said the blend is better than regular oil. O.K., since a blend is better than regular oil that leads me to wonder if a full synthetic is better than a blend. The other thing I wonder is if you do go to a blend or a synthetic why would you still change the oil at 50 hours? My thought is this: If you use a synthetic treat it as a synthetic...not regular oil.
Just so you know, I have regular oil in my tractor. I plan on getting a new one whenever they come out with a M series hydro. But I have been leaning toward switching it to full synthetics at the next service. I am putting Amsoil in my Dodge diesel this week and will probably switch my Ford diesel to full Amsoil before the year is out.
I faught this change over every step of the way 'cause of the cost..I hate to spend money, but now I don't think I am spending more money, rather I am saving money.
Gordon, I sold Electrolux vacuums door-to-door for 19 years. One question I got asked a lot was why would anyone pay $600 for a vacuum when they could buy a Hoover for $100. Good question. The Electrolux does cost more when you buy it, but because the dern things last so long, hold up so well, are serviced at your house, and do a much better job, they actually cost less than a Hoover over time. I guess I am finally starting to see synthetics in the same light. Like I said, it has taken a while.
W5FL
Veteran Member
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Rick,
Don't know what kind of a tractor you have. I have a Kubota M6800 and after the initial 50 hour change, the oil change interval is 200 hours and the oil filter change interval is 400 hours. Never saw a tractor that changed at 50 hour intervals.
I plan to change my engine oil to full synthetic at about 150 hours. The cost is really very low (mine hold 11 1/2 quarts), the friction reduction is good, and the reduced warm up time in cold weather is certainly where synthetic shines. Unfortunately can't remember weather below 32 degrees here in Texas in a long time.
Don't know what kind of a tractor you have. I have a Kubota M6800 and after the initial 50 hour change, the oil change interval is 200 hours and the oil filter change interval is 400 hours. Never saw a tractor that changed at 50 hour intervals.
I plan to change my engine oil to full synthetic at about 150 hours. The cost is really very low (mine hold 11 1/2 quarts), the friction reduction is good, and the reduced warm up time in cold weather is certainly where synthetic shines. Unfortunately can't remember weather below 32 degrees here in Texas in a long time.
KCB
New member
I have asked the question of "how much synthetic is in blends" in the past and no one seemed to know. I think everyone assumes it's 50%. A while back I emailed Castrol and got the following response:
With the introduction of API SJ oils for gasoline engines, the tests to judge CC and CD engine oil performance are no longer available making these categories obsolete. Therefore, now most manufacturers recognize the current API CF or CG-4 categories for diesel engines.
It is Castrol's recommendation for vehicles that previously called for API CC and CD oils, to now use API CF rated oils. Castrol's full synthetic SYNTEC 0W-30, 5W-30, l0W-30, 10W-40 and 5W-50 are all rated CF. Castrol RX Super l5W- 40, a mineral based oil and our part synthetic SYNTEC Blend Truck l5W- 40 are rated API CG-4, CF-4 and CF.
Regarding the composition of SYNTEC Blend, depending upon the formulation, 10 to 30 percent of SYNTEC Blend is synthetic. The key issue, however, is not the quantity of synthetics but the ability of the oil to protect. Unlike other part synthetics, SYNTEC Blend is formulated with Castrol conventional oil and SYNTEC molecular components.
SYNTEC Blend
provides a level of protection unsurpassed by any other part synthetic motor
oils, regardless of
their level of synthetic content
Susan Howell
Reference: 76089
With the introduction of API SJ oils for gasoline engines, the tests to judge CC and CD engine oil performance are no longer available making these categories obsolete. Therefore, now most manufacturers recognize the current API CF or CG-4 categories for diesel engines.
It is Castrol's recommendation for vehicles that previously called for API CC and CD oils, to now use API CF rated oils. Castrol's full synthetic SYNTEC 0W-30, 5W-30, l0W-30, 10W-40 and 5W-50 are all rated CF. Castrol RX Super l5W- 40, a mineral based oil and our part synthetic SYNTEC Blend Truck l5W- 40 are rated API CG-4, CF-4 and CF.
Regarding the composition of SYNTEC Blend, depending upon the formulation, 10 to 30 percent of SYNTEC Blend is synthetic. The key issue, however, is not the quantity of synthetics but the ability of the oil to protect. Unlike other part synthetics, SYNTEC Blend is formulated with Castrol conventional oil and SYNTEC molecular components.
SYNTEC Blend
provides a level of protection unsurpassed by any other part synthetic motor
oils, regardless of
their level of synthetic content
Susan Howell
Reference: 76089
Ok, I'm sold now on the blends /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. I have a better feeling about using a blend thanks to all the replies. It just surprises me that the two can co-exist and be viable. I've always heard to never mix oils so technology must win this one. Wen, I've got a little B-6100 and 4 quarts is my oil change, so I guess I don't mind spending a little more since the tractor seems to like it. I do question going 200 hours between changes without by-pass filtration though. I thought the old rule for fossil oil was like a car. 50 hrs. X 60 mph. = 3000 miles = (time to change). FWIW, the dealer I bought it used from said change every 50, but the tractor says every 75. I average less than 65 hours per year, so I think I would feel guilty not changing at least once a year /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.
W5FL
Veteran Member
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Rick, I have noticed that most Kubotas are 100 hours between oil changes. The M6800/M8200/M9000 have the 200 hours between oil changes they say due to the design of the engine. Whatever that means. I could not bear to change the oil twice to a single oil filter change, but that is the recommendation.
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