Synthetic oil myth or fact?

[Soundguy]

Flat tappets or roller lifters?
One of my tuner buds says that the removal of the zinc additive from engine oils is hard on flat tappets.
He's usually a pretty reliable source.

that's why many people use a S/C rated oil in a high performance gas engine vs ONLY an S rated oil. ZDDP did not disappear from C rated oils like it did on many S (only) rated oils.

 

[Browneyesvictim]

The issue of reduced ZDDP levels is a known one and worth reading about and understanding- especially anyone with an older vehicle with flat tappet cams. There are many testimonials and acknowledgement of this issue by auto and oil manufacturers alike. In a nut shell, the reduction has been mandated by the requirement for reduced emissions, as the higher ZDDP levels do not play nice with catalytic converters. This is true for any automobile built since since 1975, but the diesel and off-road has been able to play by a different standard- that is.. That being said, perhaps Tier IV may be prone to the same issues, but they typically run DPF's versus Cats...

But this has nothing to do with weather synthetics are better than dino oil or not. Just remember that even if you run synthetic oil in an internal combustion engine, you still have contamination. Aside from the resistance of thermal breakdown of synthetic oil, there is still carbon (soot) that will build up in the oil in the crankcase. Particularly an older worn engine with more blow by.

My recommendation is to go with a good oil filter and stick with the manufacturers suggested oil and change intervals no matter what the oil company says! What oil company stands behind a customer of any engine manufacturers failure?

Most people are not aware that most all oil filters have an internal (differential) bypass in them. They can be clogged and in bypass you would never know it! Most of them do go into bypass anyway on a cold morning at start-up. Synthetic oil will help prevent this to some degree. If you really want to KNOW if your oil and filter change interval is working, get an oil sample kit and send it to the lab. It only costs about $15 or so bucks at my local Cat dealership that has an oil lab. When you buy the sample kit, you get everything you need to take the sample, label it, and a pre-paid package so all you have to do is stick it in the mailbox. The results will tell you a lot about the health of your engine, however its even more beneficial if you do this over a long course so you have a trend.

End rant.

 

[ray66v]

May feelings about synthetic oil are based on very outdated beliefs.

It's 2014. Mineral oil is very good today. If you compare the specifications between synthetic and mineral oil, such as lubricity ratings, you will find that they are now basically identical.

Under normal conditions, in a normal vehicle, your engine cannot, and will not, know the difference between mineral oil, and synthetic oil. For that reason, it does not make a bit of difference which you use to break in an engine anymore. (The exception being if your engine was built with 1940 technology, and is specifically made to use a special breaking oil. Which would be clearly specified for type and interval, in the manual. This is not very common anymore, but some are out there).

More vehicles come from the factory with synthetic oil now, than don't.

The only real distinctions left between mineral and synthetic are, use in extreme temperatures. And longer oil change intervals, both advantages going to synthetic oil.

Again, it's 2014, it's really easy to analyze a product and see what is in it. There are no secret additives anymore. Nothing that is used in synthetic oil, or any other product, which is not known, and used in all the quality mineral oil products, to make an engine quieter, or smoother, or have less friction. Ask the people at any oil company who make both, and they will tell you the same.

Some people want to believe there is a difference. Just like some people insist that if they put higher octane gas in an 87 octane engine, it makes a difference. Not much can be done to change someones mind, who does not want it changed.

 

[DeereMann]

ray66v,

No disrespect intended - synthetic oils are superior to mineral oils and are critical in at least some applications. I already described a modern one in the threads above - when used as hydraulic actuating oil (new GDI/VVT engines), it is critical to use synthetic for minimizing varnishing deposits. In fact, there are a number of automotive engine makers that are now demanding synthetic only or void warranty.

I am not a synthetic zealot - I don't use it in everything out of puritianical devotion. But I do use it in many places where there are distinct advantages. These are not feelings - there is published data on performance to look up.

I hope you accept these comments in the generous spirit intended......

 

[3930dave]

DL - if you are not changing that seal soon, keep an eye out for a sale on High Mileage oil, in a brand you like.

You can just buy a discrete additive, but with the agressive USA oil sale prices, you should be able to get the seal-swellers and conditioners to try, in any name-brand High Mileage oil.

Rgds, D.

 

[ray66v]

ray66v,

No disrespect intended - synthetic oils are superior to mineral oils and are critical in at least some applications. I already described a modern one in the threads above - when used as hydraulic actuating oil (new GDI/VVT engines), it is critical to use synthetic for minimizing varnishing deposits. In fact, there are a number of automotive engine makers that are now demanding synthetic only or void warranty.

I am not a synthetic zealot - I don't use it in everything out of puritianical devotion. But I do use it in many places where there are distinct advantages. These are not feelings - there is published data on performance to look up.

I hope you accept these comments in the generous spirit intended......

Sorry, I cannot be specific enough in a post.

I was referring to engine oils, in normal vehicles.

Yes, there are applications with specific requirements, where synthetic is specified.

When an application requires synthetic oil, it is for reasons such as temperature extremes, rather than lubricity.

Turbo chargers for example, create extreme temperatures, that are only handled well by synthetic bases. Therefore, a manufacturer, who has to warranty it, will of course require you to use the product that will protect it the best.

 

[CalG]

On this topic, One should define just what "synthetic" implies.

From my understanding, Synthetic oils are made from mineral oil stock. Sort of an enhanced refining technique. NOT MAGIC!

For me, I could give a hoot! I have never experienced a lubrication related engine failure on any vehicle I've owned or operated. With 14 "engines" in operation at present, and over a hundred come and gone. I believe the type of engine oil is a matter of preference.

I do enjoy the smell of two stoke Klotz or Castrol racing castor if I need to express a preference ;-)

 

[varmint]

My 2 cents worth (about all it's worth, since I am less expert than most other commentators in this thread) is that synthetic Rotella T-6 made cold starts much easier in my old B8200, compared to Kubota conventional oil. My Subaru Forester, with the manual tranny, shifts much easier, especially when cold, when I changed to Motul synthetic gear oil (based on Subaru forum advice), and our new cars all came with synthetic engine oil. As for oil analysis, I remember that even back in the 70's, that was SOP for jet engines. Too expensive to tear down just for fun, and the various bearings, etc., inside them had differing elements incorporated, so the analysis would point out just what needed attention. I thought that was cool.

 

[big bubba]

& so how does all of above stated apply to the notion that a new engine is better off being broken in w/dyno for an interval, then switch to synthetic for it's "superior" qualities....once in a while i get a new (smaller) engine...i go w/dyno for a few changes, then to synthetic .... maybe this is a myth as newer automotive engines come from the factory w/synthetic.
lube is one of those long & slippery roads like religion that you really don't know till it's too late

 

[big bubba]

"I do enjoy the smell of two stoke Klotz or Castrol racing castor if I need to express a preference ;-)" CalG
but you may want to hold off keeping a vile beneath your mattress :talktothehand: (all in good fun!!! :drink