Synthetic Rotella

JJT · Sep 27, 2004

Over a year ago I switched everything I own over to synthetic. Rotella in the 2 Kubotas and Mobil 1 in all the gas engines. I love the stuff.

I've doubled my oil change intervals based on used oil analysis, (went from 3000 miles with dino to 6000 miles with syn, as well as 50 hours to 100 hours on the diesels).

Ease of start is only 1 benefit, I've seen a slight increase in gas mileage in the cars. That plus the increased miles between oil changes, and I'm finding it much cheaper to run synthetic. If I count labor, I'm way ahead, now I'm only doing an oil change every 2 - 3 months instead of 1 every 4 - 6 weeks with the dino

The only downside, I have a friend that burns waste oil, my volume to him has significantly reduced....

Dargo · Sep 27, 2004

Here is the article about Chrysler sludge. Again, there is articles on Toyota and Ford as well. I just can't find them right now. It seems that nobody is immune. As mentioned in lots of posts, we are demanding more out of smaller engines using less fuel.

cp1969 · Sep 27, 2004

( The issue is NOT related to highway or city driving. It is related to certain parts of the oil passages being "super heated" and causing the oil to break down. )

Then we are talking about two different "sludges". I am talking about the black crud that was mainly attributed to an inability of the detergent (or lack of detergent altogether) to suspend dirt and crud in the oil and not let it deposit on engine surfaces, not the oil itself breaking down.

( The oil companies say that it is a defect in engine design. The auto manufacturers claim that it is a defect in the refining process. Either way, without going into more than I can regarding my business, oil problems happen every day by the thousands.)

By the thousands, eh? Then, having owned over fifty vehicles, there would be a fair chance that I should have had a problem, no? Or at least know of someone who has? OTOH, I don't know anyone who owns a 2.7l Dodge.

( After much research, synthetic oil does not have the sub components needed to break down into "sludge". In other words, synthetic oil is chemically not able to break down into a wax or parifin or jelly (whatever you want to call it) that begins the end of an engine.)

This one I really have trouble with. Then what exactly does happen to it when it becomes superheated? I will concede that it may take a higher temperature or a longer exposure time, but unless synthetic oil simply vanishes when it gets hot, I'm going to suggest that a pan of synthetic, exposed to high temperatures, will eventually break down and reduce to thick goo or ashes, just like regular oil does.

( I'm not placing blame, I'm just reporting facts based upon a base of thousands of cases. Again, for the assurance that the problem supposedly physically cannot happen with synthetic oil, I'm going to use it. In the insurance business, it is known as cheap insurance. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

I think the key word there is "supposedly." If the Dodge engine indeed has a high oil temperature problem, maybe the increased temperature resistance of synthetic might be enough to do the trick. However, if this is a case of a poor lubrication system design being bailed out by synthetic oil, it doesn't make a case for using synthetic where it is not needed (i.e., well designed lube systems). It simply says that there may be instances that need or can benefit from synthetic oil, just as there are some people who need to take blood pressure medications. Because some people need blood thinners doesn't mean we all do.

YMMV. If it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, go for it. I'm not trying to talk anybody out of using synthetic if that's what they want. I just want to offer up that some people are having pretty good luck with plain, old, sub-standard dino oil, at least in the applications where plain, old, substandard dino oil is appropriate.

BRIGUY · Sep 27, 2004

The Sludge just hasn't baked enough to trurn black and get hard.

I worked In Chrysler dealers for several years in the 80's and 90's. I still have some friends in the biz. They have seen this problem. My wife insured one of these problems. It was a mess for everyone. I was told that all of the bad motors they have seen were from cars where oil changes were extended or missed all together.

It kind of sounds like Chryslers problem. If they put change intervals at 7k for sched A, and 3k for sched B than they must know that there are some people who will change it with the cheapest oil at 7k+, no mater how they drive. I've seen it many times. They need to get more specific and educate buyers better. Then if buyers then don't service properly void their warranty.

I have never had an oil related problem in any engine I have owned, Dino or synthetic,(never went over 3k on Dino) I changed to synthetic 14 years ago but never had a problem before that. For all the reasons previously discussed I think synthetic is better. BUT!!!!! if the OEM manual says that Dino is o/k than it should be fine, and not sludge up at recomended intervals.

Junkman · Sep 27, 2004

What are the current recommended treatments to clean or remove sludge without disassembly of the engine????

BRIGUY · Sep 27, 2004

Junk,
The people who had the sludge problems found when the engines were torn down after failure. (boat anchor)

I don't think the Lacquer thinner method is advisable with emissions systems. Evap purge for instance.

Junkman · Sep 28, 2004

You have been paying attention in class..... you pass the memory test with a A+..... LOL.... Can't even remember when I had posted that, but I know it was quite a while ago. It still works well on lawnmower engines... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

slowrev · Sep 28, 2004

The only case of oil jelling I ever saw seemed to have been caused by a combination of not changing the oil on schedule and the user/abuser added a different brand of oil when the engine oil was already past due to change. ! week later it was jellin, knocked like ctrazy because the oil pump could not suck it up, etc...
Only case I have seen.

Ben

Dargo · Sep 28, 2004

( Then we are talking about two different "sludges". )

Nope, sludge is sludge. I haven't tasted it, but the engineers and factories make no separate grades of sludge

( By the thousands, eh? )

Yes. To be more accurate it is likely tens of thousands. Look it up.

( Then what exactly does happen to it when it becomes superheated? )

Take two pans and some conventional oil and some synthetic and spend an afternoon boiling each. I don't know. I'm a statistic guy. The statistics point to no problem with synthetic.

( if this is a case of a poor lubrication system design being bailed out by synthetic oil, )

Now you may have something! The problem is that it appears to affect most every manufacturer and several different engines. I've never had a problem with any engine using conventional oil, but I've never gone over 3K miles between changes.

I have to strongly agree with the poster who pointed out that the manufacturers should not put two different oil change schedules in their manuals when there is a definite possibility that using the lesser expensive schedule (longer in between changes) could very likely cause major engine problems. Without hesitation, I'll stay with my statement, especially knowing the facts and statistics, that I'll now use synthetic oil in any engine that is worth more than the cost of the synthetic oil that I'm putting in it. There again, that's just me. I don't like rap music at all, but some people do...

mhalla · Sep 28, 2004

If you cut open the oil filter after an oil change on a Chrysler 2.7 would there be evidence of sludge inside the filter if there is sludge in the crankcase?

Or do you have to drop the pan to obtain the necessary evidence? Is there an automotive fiber optic scope that would let me see inside the pan through the drain hole so the pan wouldn't need to be dropped?

You guys have me worried about the 2.7 in my Stratus that now has 38,400 miles on it. Even though I have religiously changed the oil every 3000 miles (with dino) I do not have all the receipts if I have to "prove" to Chrysler that the oil was changed at this interval should my engine sludge up and would be covered by an extended warranty program offered to all owners.

Mike