I'll echo what Robbie and Yellowdogsvc have to say. I don't own a large framed machine, and I definitely don't brush cut for a living although I'd love to purchase something like the new ASV PT100 forestry with their two speed fecon. However, I was a Bobcat salesman for almost 9 years before buying two pieces of my own gear. I've seen maany people jump into "dirt work" without any specific plans and most of them end up in the hurt locker. A few are lucky but most end up with bad credit, repoed equipment, and a change of heart. As a matter of fact, I bought my two pieces of equipment but took a full time job as an 8th grade math teacher. I still get about 180 days a year out of the classroom and this gave me the flexibility i needed to build a customer base for the landscape work I like. I do a fair amount of snow removal in the winter too. I could leave teaching and go full time since I have built up a pretty good customer list but it has been a blessing not having to count on the jobs with the down economy and diesel prices. Have a solid business plan before you take the leap. Use someone you trust in the industry to give you honest feedback and take it slowly. I wish you the best of luck.
T 320 Bobcat with Loftness G2 Tree Shredder
- Thread starter Mowermoney
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yellowdogsvc
Platinum Member
Robbie Hegwood said:
I know a guy who pays a good operator $15/hr plus expenses plus a truck and fuel to run an RC100 with mulcher. That's not a bad way to get into the biz and learn.
I started off doing a lot of odd jobs for a tree company. When I grew and my skills advanced and I learned from the owner (I was an owner operator but inexperienced), I was given much larger jobs to sub on and we now have a great working relationship after about 10 years. He knows he can trust me on large jobs to complete it the way he would want it done and it frees his crew up. Partnering up with established companies is a great way to improve your skills, make contacts and establish relationships. Never stab anyone who gives you work in the back and don't get greedy. You can get rich, slowly but part of that is not blowing your wad on good equipment that sits or you break during the learning curve. I have been there..and it was real scary for the first few years. I was lucky I got a good cash infusion from my dad when I needed it most.
Now, I'm still learning something new every day but I've made some pretty good contacts and though they don't use me every day, they seem to be there when the bids get thin or the phone isn't ringing. Just takes a little time and the willingness to do some crap work for seat time.
yellowdogsvc
Platinum Member
Digdeep said:
You definitely have the best of both worlds. I have thought about going into teaching but didn't want to go back to school for teaching classes. I have a BS in Business Management and 11 yrs. as a business owner but not time teaching other than a 3 year stint as a wrestling coach. I'd love to do what I do part-time now that I'm gettin' old! There are plenty of days that I get up and can't wait to go chop something or stack some big trees for the guys to burn but there are more and more where I'd rather be inside!
Are kids as scary as everyone says they are now days? I think middle school would be a great place to work.
OP
Mowermoney
Member
Well, the story continues. I demoed a T-320 equiped with a Bobcat/Fecon head on Friday. The Bobcat head does a good job cutting down large trees. That is where the fun begins. With its tendency to stall when you apply constant pressure whil grinding down the stem(stump) you must hit and pull out very quickly before the engine stalls out. If the engine stalls too much, the lift function ceases and the engine will stall out, just as it did with my Loftness Carbide Cutter. When moving forward over downed material, you must lean the mulcher back to prevent throwing the material behind you. When mulching backwards, the machine stalls. You must again lean the head back slightly. In spite of all I could do, I neve got the hang of it. The salesman was better at not stalling the engine, but he could not successfully grind an eight inch dead pine.
I was glad to know there was nothing wrong with my Carbide Cutter. The answer lies in the way Bobcat sets up their machines, an answer I don't fully understand. There is no anti-stall device on Bobcats. Caterpillar, ASV, and others have a system that allows pressure to bypass when the engine begins to load. Not so on a Bobcat. So how do you un-learn 5 years of operation with the machine doing the thinking and re-learn to operate within narrow parameters?
Does the S-330 operate as described above?
I was glad to know there was nothing wrong with my Carbide Cutter. The answer lies in the way Bobcat sets up their machines, an answer I don't fully understand. There is no anti-stall device on Bobcats. Caterpillar, ASV, and others have a system that allows pressure to bypass when the engine begins to load. Not so on a Bobcat. So how do you un-learn 5 years of operation with the machine doing the thinking and re-learn to operate within narrow parameters?
Does the S-330 operate as described above?
yellowdogsvc
Platinum Member
Mowermoney said:
Mowermoney: it isn't the bobcat. You should try it out again. This time, be very gentle in your movements and don't force the machine into anything. Now, I admit I haven't run the Bobcat forestry cutter, but it's specs are the same as the CAt mulcher and I have run that on the s300's. You will be pleasantly surprised at what you can cut but it takes finesse. Once you master the machine, you will be able to amaze yourself and others on what you can cut. I had similar issues with the s300 loader arms failing to work when I bogged the machine down. Once I learned how to make every movement count and not force the machine but rather let the hammers do the work, it was a night and day performance issue. I am thinking that the t320 would be much better than the s300 just based on torque, hp, and displacement and psi in the hydro system.
give it another chance.
Compared to CAT, bobcat has low psi but the gpm will get the rotor turning fast. Let it's force do the chopping and slicing and keep it from bunching up on material. When you backdrag, at least with the CAT mulcher, I tilt the head forward and put the teeth into the ground as much as possible and get really, really fine shreds.
yellowdogsvc said:You definitely have the best of both worlds. I have thought about going into teaching but didn't want to go back to school for teaching classes. I have a BS in Business Management and 11 yrs. as a business owner but not time teaching other than a 3 year stint as a wrestling coach. I'd love to do what I do part-time now that I'm gettin' old! There are plenty of days that I get up and can't wait to go chop something or stack some big trees for the guys to burn but there are more and more where I'd rather be inside!
Are kids as scary as everyone says they are now days? I think middle school would be a great place to work.
It's a challenge sometimes to do both but I'm very fortunate knowing that I don't need to be in the seat of my machines to make a living. I'm with you on the middle schoolers. They are much easier to handle and for the most part eager to learn. It helps that I mostly teach advanced math students because they are there to learn and don't give a guy much grief.
Come Spring time I'm just as interested in school getting out so that I can push some dirt. I really enjoy cutting trails for my buddies on their hunting properties. I bought a Davco a couple of years ago for my RC50 and it does a good job since it uses centrifigul force. I just have to go slow since I don't have high flow.
I miss selling equipment sometimes because I enjoyed helping my customers but being behind a windshield 12+ hours a day got old. At least I still have some contacts in the industry that I can needle for information every once in awhile.
Robbie Hegwood
Platinum Member
Mower. Give Buck a call or I'll have him call you. They have a new 180D and we'll set it and turn it loose. That's to bad on a 8" tree, that's where our heads get wound up, and without stalling. Keep the Bobcat in your back pocket, I think there is some tuning that could be done on it to help it running. But it would take a good tech to do it.
OP
Mowermoney
Member
Robbie:
I'm not familiar with a 180-D. I'll call Buck today and get the scoop.
Yellowdog:
I know that I am trying to operate the Bobcat like the Cat Machines that I am accustomed to. I like the power of the T-320, but I know the learning curve will be expensive, and I can't afford an lot of unknowns at this time of business uncertainty. On the other hand, keeping the Cats is not an option. Between the two machines, repair costs and downtime is taking all my resources and energy. And there is always the everpresent fire danger this time of year.
I'm not familiar with a 180-D. I'll call Buck today and get the scoop.
Yellowdog:
I know that I am trying to operate the Bobcat like the Cat Machines that I am accustomed to. I like the power of the T-320, but I know the learning curve will be expensive, and I can't afford an lot of unknowns at this time of business uncertainty. On the other hand, keeping the Cats is not an option. Between the two machines, repair costs and downtime is taking all my resources and energy. And there is always the everpresent fire danger this time of year.
WestshoreConstruction
Gold Member
Robbie Hegwood said:
I put a few hours on the New T320 this weekend and it is as good plus a little bit. The roller suspension is awesome. I haven't tried my Bobcat cutter on it but the 180 Kicks ***** on it. You can tell the 320 has more hyd power and more pressure because it sounds like a turbine spinning and the displacement change is almost instant on spoolup, I'm gonna give the motor a little more displacement and increase the pressure relief because the 320 is 3650 psi vs 3200-3300 on the 330. I can't wait to see the DAH-150 on my ex
Robbie Hegwood
Platinum Member
Hey Mower. The 180D is our high flow skid steer head. 73" wide cut, needs 30 gpm and up and atleast 3000psi. It is the head Westshore is running. With the success West is having it sounds like your releif valve is set to high. You can't have more theorectical hyd hp than engine hp without stalling the engine.
West shore I wish we lived closer together, I think we enjoy our toys too much. I'm glad your 180D is working so well and I'm sure your excavator head will rock.
West shore I wish we lived closer together, I think we enjoy our toys too much. I'm glad your 180D is working so well and I'm sure your excavator head will rock.