TC 40 hydraulic oil backing into crank case

[ksterling]

After I had a FEL installed, the overflow tube on the engine started pouring hydraulic oil out. When I brought it back, the dealer said it was oil not hydraulic oil and that the crankcase must have been over filled. He then drained the excess. Got it home and after warming up it did the same thing. Hydraulic oil is being force into the crank case causing it to overflow. What is happening?

 

[jinman]

The shaft seal on your main hydraulic pump is shot. That allows hydraulic fluid to bypass the seal and go diretly into the engine crankcase. It has happened to several other people here on TBN. The dealer must have his head where the sun doesn't shine to send you home with this problem. You need a Main Hydraulic Pump overhaul or a new Pump. If you have to buy a new one, sit down before they give you the price.

Edit: BTW, the install of the FEL could have been done wrong and caused your hydraulic system to go into pressure bypass. If the bypass was not properly plumbed into the line, it might be that your hydraulic pump was dead-headed and that caused the seal to fail under the tremendous pressure. Did the same dealer who sent you home unrepaired also do the FEL install? I'm not liking what I'm thinking. Sheesh!

2nd Edit: Welcome to TBN. This is NOT the way I'd like for you to join the forum, but welcome and good luck.

 

[ksterling]

Jinman, thanks for the info. Ballpark figure on what I am looking at?

 

[jinman]

Jinman, thanks for the info. Ballpark figure on what I am looking at?

The seal kit for the rebuild is about $175 and the whole pump is about $620. If your dealer blew up your pump when he installed your FEL, he should be footing this bill. If you had no seal problems before you had the FEL installed, be very suspicious. I'm not sure I'd want this dealer ever touching my tractor again. Understand that I only know just the tiny bit of info you posted, but I hear alarm bells going off in my head like Big Ben.

 

[RickB]

The seal kit for the rebuild is about $175 and the whole pump is about $620. If your dealer blew up your pump when he installed your FEL, he should be footing this bill. If you had no seal problems before you had the FEL installed, be very suspicious. I'm not sure I'd want this dealer ever touching my tractor again. Understand that I only know just the tiny bit of info you posted, but I hear alarm bells going off in my head like Big Ben.

Agreed.

 

[ksterling]

Thanks for the welcome and the information. I dropped the tractor off at another dealer and explained what had happened. He said it was highly possible that the installation was done wrong. I'll have an answer in a few days.

 

[Soundguy]

keep us posted. if the shaft seal blew out due to dead head.. I'd look the pump over real good.

down in the chinese tractors forum this sort of hyd failure is extremely common due to the bone headed plumbing design the chinese use.. pump housings can be ruined beyond repair this way.

good luck with the second dealer..

soundguy

 

[dubldee]

This exact thing happened to me and the guys here helped me fix it.

Reference: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/127127-tc40d-overfull-crankcase.html

If that link isn't good, just search posts by my username and you'll find the right one quickly.

some good info on that thread.

My "kit" to replace the seals was $150 or so (for a handful of o-rings and gaskets).

I'm now over 100 hrs later and no problems.

 

[ksterling]

An update on my tractor, the second mechanic called and said it was ready. I went to pick it up and while I was paying he had one of his associates warm it up and check it out. The seal blew while in the parking lot. Apparently he did not check anything, just replaced the seal. After reminding him that there must be something wrong that is causing the seal to fail, he is working on it still. I hope to pick it up Sat.

 

[JC-jetro]

An update on my tractor, the second mechanic called and said it was ready. I went to pick it up and while I was paying he had one of his associates warm it up and check it out. The seal blew while in the parking lot. Apparently he did not check anything, just replaced the seal. After reminding him that there must be something wrong that is causing the seal to fail, he is working on it still. I hope to pick it up Sat.

Probably it is a dead head situation or he forgot to install the snap ring that secures the new seal against top head portion of the pump. If the snap ring is not installed It will pop our with or without dead head. Hopefully, snap ring is the problem.

JC,

 

[jinman]

An update on my tractor, the second mechanic called and said it was ready. I went to pick it up and while I was paying he had one of his associates warm it up and check it out. The seal blew while in the parking lot. Apparently he did not check anything, just replaced the seal. After reminding him that there must be something wrong that is causing the seal to fail, he is working on it still. I hope to pick it up Sat.

I would ask to see the pressure monitored and watch it while I operated the 3PH and FEL. If the BH is attached, operate it instead of the 3PH. Everything here screams that something is causing your pump to deadhead and blow seals.

 

[Soundguy]

An update on my tractor, the second mechanic called and said it was ready. I went to pick it up and while I was paying he had one of his associates warm it up and check it out. The seal blew while in the parking lot. Apparently he did not check anything, just replaced the seal. After reminding him that there must be something wrong that is causing the seal to fail, he is working on it still. I hope to pick it up Sat.

don'tch just love shops that only fix the symptom, and not the underlying cause...

good luck!

soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

I would ask to see the pressure monitored and watch it while I operated the 3PH and FEL. If the BH is attached, operate it instead of the 3PH. Everything here screams that something is causing your pump to deadhead and blow seals.

I'd for sure want to see the relief work ing as well.. though for that seal to blow in the parking lot.. it makes me thing quick connector...

soundguy

 

[ksterling]

Finally got my tractor back. It appears that that the original dealer blew the pump seals when the loader was installed. Subsequently the other seals were blown also. The second dealer initially replaced outer seals and they blew. He then repaired the pump seals and outer seals and credited for the first set. Moral of the story is I will never use the first dealer again.

 

[JC-jetro]

Finally got my tractor back. It appears that that the original dealer blew the pump seals when the loader was installed. Subsequently the other seals were blown also. The second dealer initially replaced outer seals and they blew. He then repaired the pump seals and outer seals and credited for the first set. Moral of the story is I will never use the first dealer again.

I'm glad it caused no further harm to the pump. Gear type positive displacement pump can not be dead headed without an internal relief device. On commercial application a lot of gear pumps like that have spring loaded relief device as part of the pump.

JC,

 

[Soundguy]

sounds like the first dealer made an oops with a qd not being plugged in fully.. that or totally goofed on a hose placement.. or had an incompatible valve.. etc..

soundguy

 

[jinman]

Ksterling, it's good to hear that you finally have a resolution to this problem and have established a good relationship with the second dealer who sounds reliable and fair. I'm sorry you had all the grief, but maybe now things will run smoothly for you.

 

[parcrotcart]

Looks like I'm having the same problem. Are their allot of O-rings and are they some type of specialty o-rings? Can I just take them somewhere and match them up and cut my own gaskets or should I just order the kit? Any info on how to take this pump off anywhere on the web?

 

[parcrotcart]

oops! Forgot to mention, mines a TC 35. Anyone know the kit #?

 

[jinman]

oops! Forgot to mention, mines a TC 35. Anyone know the kit #?

Before you start this job, read this thread all the way through.

The process of removing the pump is as follows:

1. Remove the inlet/suction pipe from the top of the pump. You need to remove the whole pipe. Under the right operator platform, there's a rubber boot with a hose clamp. Loosen that clamp and remove the whole pipe to get it out of your way.

2. Remove the bottom pressure pipe. On your tractor, your pump flange only has 2 bolts (TC35) instead of 4 bolts (TC40/45). The 2 bolt flange on your tractor is because your hydraulic pressure is set lower. After removing the bolts on the underside of the pump, go back to the other end of the pipe and remove the lower bolt out of the flange where the pipe enters the system diverter and pressure regulator. You only have to loosen the top bolt because the flange has a U-shaped slot that will allow the pipe to be removed without the top bolt being all the way out. CAUTION: Do not bend or damage this high pressure pipe or flange. I have another thread about my problems getting the flange to seal after re-assy. It was because I bent the flange. I ended up spending over $100 on a new pipe to cure my problem.

3. After the pipes are removed, loosen the four bolts holding both the main pump and power steering pump onto the engine boss. The back side bolts are in a tight spot, but they can be loosened without further disassy.

4. Remove the oil pressure tube from the block. This tube is directly behind the main pump and won't let the pump slide backwards unless it is disconnected from the engine block.

5. Carefully remove the main pump. The drive gear will come out with the pump.

6. Either replace the seals in the pump or take it to your NH dealers service department to get the seal kit installed. I preferred to have somebody with experience do mine, so I paid my dealer $188 for them to install the kit. That price included the kit and labor.

BTW: Your seal kit is the same as the TC40/45 tractors. It's SBA340293698 and the current price is $185, so it has gone up since I had mine done. Don't forget to order o-ring seals for the pressure and suction tubes. Your dealer can looks those up when you order your kit or after having your pump repaired by them. Also, don't forget that you'll have to do an engine oil/filter change when you get the new pump installed.