TC33D wont start

[Strummer]

Back at it again . Found this under the steering column.

 

[Strummer]

Sorry I never got around to updating! Honey Do took priority. Finally got around to working on this today. I did replace the ignition with the NAPA Still wouldn't start! Next I went to the fuse holder...I do not have my original Owners manual but I've got one from Messicks.It shows the first three fuses to be 7.5 (top to bottom) then no fuse in the next two positions then a 20 amp and that it? I know originally all or most of the fuse positions had a fuse. Looked on line and found this View attachment 768518
Replaced all fuses with the correct amperage and bam! she lit right up It appears all is good for now. I would ask if someone could please list the actual shot of the the fuse box or at least a top to bottom listing of fuse order. Thanks all for the replies.

My tractor don’t have a fuse box like this that I have found. Mine is a 2006 or 2008 . Only fuse I have found are where the relays are

 

[thclimer]

Oh my, looks like you have some rodent friends trying to help you with your electrical conductivity.

 

[Strummer]

Oh my, looks like you have some rodent friends trying to help you with your electrical conductivity.

Yup . Have to figure out how to get them under control

 

[Strummer]

Almost got it all rewired . De pinned and pretty much re built the harness.

 

[rondig]

Sounds like a corrosion issue in harness or connection. See it all the time...easiest way to test is to use a multimeter on milivolts. Test between each connection. If reading is more than 0 check that connection.

 

[jn9230]

Might need help also: I read this thread and my problem sounds similar than the TC33, but not exactly

2008 TC30, 600 hrs.
Was running fine, then just quit while out in the field. Would not even turn over.

Called a buddy for a jump, but still starter would not even turn over. Tried to bypass the solenoid with a jumper and after a couple of tries, it started. But it would only run a few minutes and quit again. Finally had to get towed home.

Once home, jumped it again and the engine started right up no problem. Put the TC30 in my garage and let the engine run over an hour (tach-time) trying to duplicate the problem. Engine never quit.

Now the TC30 is in my garage and I can do testing. All fuses good. Battery tested borderline bad at only 8 volts (they said it could be charged). It was old, so I replaced it just to be safe. Installed new battery, and have good voltage at 12.5 volts. Cleaned up battery cable connectors. Engine started right up first time. Checked voltage while running and it showed 14.5 volts, so I know the battery is good, and I’m pretty sure the alternator is good since I’m getting 14.5v at the battery while running.

Let the engine run for a few minutes just to do more voltage checks to see why engine quit in the first place and build my confidence. Son-of-a-gun, it quit again for no apparent reason (luckily this time at home in my garage). Sometimes it will turn over, sometimes just clicking. When I turn the ignition on without the engine running, I hear clicking somewhere around the top/back of the engine. Could this be something wrong with the ignition switch?

Continuity was perfect when checking the + battery cable from post to top of starter. Also ground continuity was perfect from battery negative post to frame.

Also Jumper'd the seat safety switch under the seat. Checks good.

BTW, where is the relay for the starter start circuit (TC30)? How about the glow plug relay that I should also check or replace? And last but not least, where is the fuel solenoid?

So I think I have two problems: 1) Occasionally starts, sometimes nothing. 2) If started, runs 5-10 minutes, then quits.

Thanks to all for all the info provided so far in this thread.

 

[thclimer]

Post #127 of this tread gives a number of links for reference.

From an electrical perspective there are only 2 things that I can think of that will shut your tractor off.

1) The seat safety switch. You said yours is bypassed.

2) Power to the fuel solenoid is removed. Which I guess could be a faulty ignition switch or relay.

The relays are located behind a side panel, see PDF. Yours may be slightly different as this is not for a TC30

When you describe only getting clicks when turning the ignition switch it makes me think of a weak battery or the issue which so many of the TC series tractor have in the starting circuit which is eliminated by adding the dedicated starting relay modification.

 

[jn9230]

Post #127 of this tread gives a number of links for reference.

From an electrical perspective there are only 2 things that I can think of that will shut your tractor off.

1) The seat safety switch. You said yours is bypassed.

2) Power to the fuel solenoid is removed. Which I guess could be a faulty ignition switch or relay.

The relays are located behind a side panel, see PDF. Yours may be slightly different as this is not for a TC30

When you describe only getting clicks when turning the ignition switch it makes me think of a weak battery or the issue which so many of the TC series tractor have in the starting circuit which is eliminated by adding the dedicated starting relay modification.

Thanks much for the document, will study it today and try to find the TC30 relays (I don't see them obvious with the hood open). Still don't know where the fuel solenoid is.

Yep, I ohms tested the seat safety switch and it was ok, but still by passed it anyway with a jumper.

I'll pursue:
1) The ignition switch.
2) The + battery cable to the starter (in case it is corroded on the inside and not allowing proper amperage while still supplying proper voltage).
3) The starter relay modification.

Thanks again! I'll report back when I know more...

 

[thclimer]

Thanks much for the document, will study it today and try to find the TC30 relays (I don't see them obvious with the hood open). Still don't know where the fuel solenoid is.

Yep, I ohms tested the seat safety switch and it was ok, but still by passed it anyway with a jumper.

I'll pursue:
1) The ignition switch.
2) The + battery cable to the starter (in case it is corroded on the inside and not allowing proper amperage while still supplying proper voltage).
3) The starter relay modification.

Thanks again! I'll report back when I know more...

The fuel solenoid is #20 in the diagram, I don't have specific manual for the TC30 but the one I attached I would hope is close, its for the TC29, TC29D, TC33 and TC33D.

Before I did the starter relay mod I had the relay clicking with out turning over the engine but once the tractor started it never shut off without me turning the key off. Yours shutting off seems to me that the fuel solenoid is loosing power or you have a very intermittent fuel blockage.

 

[jn9230]

jn9230 ... I'll report back when I know more...

Before I did the starter relay mod I had the relay clicking with out turning over the engine but once the tractor started it never shut off without me turning the key off. Yours shutting off seems to me that the fuel solenoid is loosing power or you have a very intermittent fuel blockage.

Update as promised:

I installed the Dedicated Starting Relay modification. The tractor started right up. But it ran only for 12 minutes (2/10 hr) and then died. Would not start after that. Would not even crank (heard clicking but it did not turn over).

Have good voltage at battery and at Starter (12.5+). I also checked voltage while it was running, had 14.5+.

I now suspect the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid. Will test today or tomorrow and possibly replace that.

I also suspect I have a short somewhere.
Reason for suspicion: I have continuity between the battery positive and engine ground (with battery negative disconnected). Am I wrong to believe this is NOT correct? Doesn’t this mean I have a short somewhere? Does anyone have a script or directions as to how to find a short on a TC30?

I'm becoming very discouraged, but not giving up yet!

Thanks much for your help so far.
...

 

[jn9230]

Follow-up:

The Fuel Solenoid appears to be good. To test without removal, with a wire, I touched the solenoid to the battery+ and the solenoid clicked, as if being actuated. Repeated test several times, all good.

But, another reason to suspect a short: I have continuity from the hot side of the solenoid to the block and battery negative. Ironically, no battery voltage drop was detected (battery voltage remained at 12.58-12.60 with or without being connected to the tractor).

Very strange!
...

 

[tc40da-rg]

@Papasmirf (post 11/21/13): I know it has been 10 years ago since your post, but I would sure like to know just where you found that “small ignition relay“. I have a 2004 TC 40 DA that I have searched pretty much anything and everything electrical on and it has been weeks but all it does is click, when you turn it to “on“ and there’s nothing when you turn it over to start.

I have a 2007 TC30 that did the same. After a 1/2 day of searching I found a small relay that is for the starter start circuit. I replaced it...all ok now

 

[dieselscout80]

@Papasmirf (post 11/21/13): I know it has been 10 years ago since your post, but I would sure like to know just where you found that “small ignition relay“. I have a 2004 TC 40 DA that I have searched pretty much anything and everything electrical on and it has been weeks but all it does is click, when you turn it to “on“ and there’s nothing when you turn it over to start.

He has NOT been online here since 2014, so not likely to hear from him.

 

[thclimer]

@Papasmirf (post 11/21/13): I know it has been 10 years ago since your post, but I would sure like to know just where you found that “small ignition relay“. I have a 2004 TC 40 DA that I have searched pretty much anything and everything electrical on and it has been weeks but all it does is click, when you turn it to “on“ and there’s nothing when you turn it over to start.

Attached is the starting circuit schematic, which may help. He may have been referring to the Neutral Start Relay #10.

Are all your fuses good?

Is your ignition switch functioning correctly? Mine pretty much melted before I did the starting circuit modification. I replaced mine with one from NAPA which was a beast compared to the flimsy plastic OEM one.

Have you confirmed that the other switches (seat, PTO Neutral) are being made or have you by passed them?

 

[tc40da-rg]

He has NOT been online here since 2014, so not likely to hear from him.

Thanks. I figured it was a long shot, but thought I’d ask.
I got my TC40DA to start/run, but it still has electrical issues with the hi-lo range/third function operation/dash and gauges. This electrical anomaly has plagued me for about three years!

 

[tc40da-rg]

Attached is the starting circuit schematic, which may help. He may have been referring to the Neutral Start Relay #10.

Are all your fuses good?

Is your ignition switch functioning correctly? Mine pretty much melted before I did the starting circuit modification. I replaced mine with one from NAPA which was a beast compared to the flimsy plastic OEM one.

Have you confirmed that the other switches (seat, PTO Neutral) are being made or have you by passed them?

Thank you for the information. I’m still trying to open/download the image you posted. I did get the tractor to start and run. I discovered that one of the relays had gone out –– which I had previously checked, and was good earlier. And a hot wire going to its neighboring relay had corroded in two, up in the terminal itself. All the fuses are good. Now, all the relays are good. All battery terminals, and cables or clean and tightly connected. The ignition switch seems to be operating as it should. And just trust me when I see that none of the safety switches or an issue. (Well, perhaps if there’s one for the PTO)
And now I am faced with an age old electrical problem some where in the electrical system for the high-low range circuits and the controller for the third function valves (root grapple, Lane Shark, etc.). This particular problem has plagued me for the last few years and I have yet to be able to run it down. I do believe it is this problem that burned out the relay and would not let the tractor crank. When I turn the ignition switch on the battery light does not light up. After the engine cranks and is running the battery light stays on And will dim and fluctuate if I toggle the Hi-low range switch; also, the speedometer and other dash gauges go crazy.The alternator is charging (14.8 volts) and the battery stays charged.

 

[thclimer]

The following attachments should help with the high-low switch circuit:

 

[dieselscout80]

Mine hi/low (rabbit/turtle) quit working for a bit and then started’s wing again and hasn’t skipped a beat since. The electrical connections seemed to be fine on mine. I had a thread on it here with pictures.