TC40d won't warm up

Slippy · Dec 9, 2005

TC40d won\'t warm up

My TC40d does not want to start when it is cold. I let the yellow light go out and wait about 15 more seconds before I try to start it. It sputters and puffs smoke the first time. Then on second try doing same start up process it will start, hard. Again, puffing and sputtering. After a few seconds it will get to a smooth running condition.

While plowing snow today, temp around 30 degrees, I noticed the temp needle did not move off the cold position, even after about 45 min of running. Is this normal? Should I be concerned about the hard starting or the fact the gauge indicates cold?

IH3444 · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Slippery, you should check the thermostat, and if it's OK, then consider what I do with both my properly working dozer, and 2WD IH. Place a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator, blocking about half. That should help with warm up. Have you ever seen the big tractor trailer rigs with their snap bibs over the grill, only opened up part way in the winter. Same principle with the card board. As far as the hard starting, you should seriously consider a block heater., $20 at the NH dealer, and about an hour to install. Your tractor will start like it's summer.

DocHeb · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

For the starting problem:

Are you running winter diesel or using winter anti-gel conditioner for your fuel? If not, peruse the innumerable threads on this subject by searching for "gel" or "gelling".

For the low operating temperature problem:

3. Low-temp running due to flow bypass at common coolant drain line.
Cold TC45D
Finally - a Cold Fix

4. Low-temp running due to defective thermostat with "dingle-ball" that jams and keeps thermostat open.
My brand new TC35D... Nice picture of the problem. Several different methods of correction are presented in following threads.

DieselMonk · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Start the engine right after the light goes out. Don't wait 15 seconds. I think that's what my manual says anyway. Or pre-glow the engine twice before you start in extreme cold weather. If that does not help, maybe some or all of your glowplugs are gone. You also can try a engine block heater.
Now about coolant temp: Maybe the termosat is gone. Take it out and boil it to see if it opens and closes.

good luck!
Max

thatguy · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

My first guess would be the 15 second wait is allowing the cylinder/air intake (depending on what is being heated) to cool off sort defeating the purpose of heating..

good luck

b

lhfarm · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

I had the same starting issues (but not the warm problem). My TC40DA came with a block heater installed. I just plugged in it for about an hour and it started like it was summer time. A good investment.

Slippy · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Unless the thermostat just went out, it is ok. It worked fine prior and all summer. Fuel issue is a good idea. Low on fuel anyway and need to fill up with winter grade.

Does a block heater need an hour to warm up? Don't think I would have that much lead time most often.

Is there anyway to check a glow plug?

I will try glowing twice before next start and see if that helps.
Thanks to all.

jinman · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

( Unless the thermostat just went out, it is ok. It worked fine prior and all summer. )

Slippy, the thermostat works fine up until the time the little checkvalve just happens to lodge in the open thermostat and from then on it's "toast." You have to remove the thermostat and push the little valve back into place to make it work again. If you read the links from DocHeb, you saw a picture of my thermostat with the problem. That doesn't happen gradually, it happens all at once. Also, the block drain bypass problem is one many of us experienced. I'd bet my next paycheck that your problem is one or both of those issues.

I can't help you with the starting problem. My tractor has always started instantly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DieselMonk · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

I would measure the current drain while pre-glowing the engine with a DC current clamp. That is the easiest way. It wouldn't hurt to visually inspect the connections at the glow plug. You also could pre-glow the engine and feel with your hand if the glow plugs are getting warm. You also can take off the injectors and visually check the glow plugs if they are getting hot.

I would try starting your cold engine right after the glow pug light goes off. Don't wait and hit the starter right away. This way the glow plug is still glowing while the fuel is getting injected.

Hope you're getting it figured out!

Max

jjcc246 · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

I always hit my glow plugs two sometimes three times on extremely cold starts. Just turn the key when the light goes out hit it again and repeat if necessary. Then start immediatly, don't wait 15 secs. Don't have the no heat situation, so I can't help there. Good Luck

PineRidge · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Slippy you have been given good advice from Doc & Jim on the thermostat problem. Our TC-40D comes up to temperature within 7 minutes in the coldest Ohio winter.

We do cycle the glo-plugs twice before starting in really cold weather but it has never failed to start.

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 10, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

I can't help you with the starting problem. My tractor has always started instantly. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

Jim:

And to think, in my very first post ever, I referred to you as "a gentleman among gentlemen". And now it's too late to edit it out! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I guess I'll have to go find a new role model, but at least it's nice to know that you're not perfect, just like the rest of us. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Still a huge fan, John D. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jinman · Dec 11, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

( I guess I'll have to go find a new role model, but at least it's nice to know that you're not perfect, just like the rest of us. )

John, you wouldn't want a "perfect" role model would you.? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

No, I can't say I'm anywhere near perfect by any means, but Texas is about as perfect as it gets for all-around tractor use. We have very mild winters here and my tractor does not have the benefit of shelter. Even so, it has performed flawlessly when it comes to starting. I've had to troubleshoot that glowplug circuit exactly 1 time because I got water in a relay socket. As a result I know very little about it without looking at my repair manual. That's why I said what I did. I'm a poor choice to give advice for very cold weather starting. Although, I was bragging just a bit about the reliability of my little blue buddy. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What the heck... I'll check the Repair Manual to see what I find. ...be back in a minute...

Okay, I'm back. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

The manual shows that the glow plug lamp circuit (relay and lamp) are in parallel with the glow plugs. That means that if the light is ON, there has to be power available to the glow plugs. The deluxe model TC have glow plugs with a resistance of only .8 ohms each. They are in parallel, so trying to read them without disconnecting each one is an exercise in frustration. Most meters struggle to accurately measure 1 ohm, much less a couple of tenths of an ohm. The glow plugs on the deluxe TCs are quick heating types and thats why they only stay on for 10 seconds. I'm not sure what stress it puts on the glow plugs by cycling them multiple times, but if those who do that on a regular basis have no problems, then I'd say it probably won't hurt.

That's about all I can add to this issue. If the light is cycling properly, then the glow plug timer and the associated circuit is working properly. There may be other issues with the grade of fuel or additives as DocHeb suggested. That's another thing I'll have to plead ignorance of thanks to Texas weather. I really feel for you who live in frigid temperatures. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

hazmat · Dec 11, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

I think you questions have been answered, but I just wanted to thank you for reminding me to "install" my cardboard for the winter. My TC18 runs very cold in the winter.

PS - get the block heater - you can leave it plugged in overnight when the weatherman predicts the white stuff.

Slippy · Dec 11, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Thanks to all of you for the great suggestions. I have filled up with winter fuel, covered 1/2 the radiator with cardboard, and used the process of starting as soon as the glow light goes out... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif what a great result. Tractor started right up, not sputtering or puffing smoke. Plowed snow and after about 8 to 10 min., temp guage smack dab in the middle of the green. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif You guys are great! Simple things that I hope I would eventually try on my own, but with your help, done in 15 min., and life is good, well at least as far as my TC40d is concerned. If I'm wrong let me know, but I assume that means glow plugs and thermostat are all working properly.
Thanks again!

Oh yea, and by the way, should I still be concerned about the shut off valve discussed in the other posts that many of you have installed?

IH3444 · Dec 11, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Ahhhhhhhh...........cardboard, the magic tool. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

djradz · Dec 12, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

The cardboard addition is unnecessary, if all else is working well. Since you've gotten the glow plug process down, I'd also look at the other two problems on the 40D - the partially blocked open thermostat and the radiator bypass through the coolant drain. Even during the fall and spring, when the engine is more likely to warm (and you probably won't have cardboard in) these two minor items, keep the engine from warming to mid-range, and should be corrected.

SacandagaBrad · Dec 16, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Hazmat,

( My TC18 runs very cold in the winter. )

Really? I wonder if the thermostat is stuck open. My TC24 runs at the exact same temp (on the gauge anyway) whether I mowing on a 90 degree day in July or pushing snow at 1800 RPMs at -20 in January.

Been skiing yet? Gore (my closest place) is shaping up real nice from what I've heard, might try to sneak out Monday if I don't go fishing.

Brad

CT_Tree_Guy · Dec 16, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

I've been thinking about this, and I keep coming back to what PineRidge said: Our TC-40D comes up to temperature within 7 minutes in the coldest Ohio winter. This is the same sentiment that was just expressed by the previous poster.

While cardboard, aka "magic tool", aka "affordable housing" will get you more heat, I don't see any reason that a properly functioning engine can't get up to normal operating temp without it, or at least close enough to not need it. I still think Slippy has a problem with the thermostat, or one of those two possible trouble spots in the plumbing mentioned by DocHeb.

In other words, "Slippery, you should check the thermostat". /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lastly, here's a thread that talks about heater problems, cooling system plumbing, cardboard, and other good stuff: Need Help Heater Does Not Work.

hazmat · Dec 16, 2005

Re: TC40d won\'t warm up

Maybe I should check it. I think I have an old pot around somewhere I can boil it in....

I've skiied 3 days at Sunday River & 1 day at Bradford (the 200' bump where I patrol). Both have decent conditions, although today's storm was rain at Bradford (Eastern MA)