TDC flywheel mark on an AD3 152 in a 135

[gravzzy]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and to tractors as well. My brother in law dropped me an old MF 135 with a loader in front and a snowblower so I can clear my parking with it this winter. I'm a heavy road truck mechanic so he expects me to make this old thing run better when he gets it back at spring.

I have to admit that I think this tractor is an absolute pile of junk, for it looks like it has never been maintained at all in its whole life, except when something blew... Everything is loose and leaks and every hose looks like it will blow soon. I'd mostly like to have the engine working fine at first and that's why I'm here.

I'm trying to check the fuel pump timing (it is a Perkins AD3 152), because the engine is almost un-startable, it smokes badly when I give it throttle, it runs like crap (certainly not on all 3 or it is de-timed) and it sounds like it exhausts in the intake at low RPM (I can't say idle because it's too rough to be called so). Somebody cut a hole in the end of the air filter so it stops to be thrown out of its housing!! I've been told the fuel pump has recently been removed and supposedly the tractor runs bad since then.

I'd need advice to find the timing marks; I can't use the crank pulley key for reference since the hydraulic pump drive parts would need to be removed and to do so I need to dismantle the whole front of the tractor (parts are all welded together...!?) and I have to work on it outside in the snow bank... No crane, no cherry picker, no hoist... The manuals I have states there is a TDC mark on the flywheel but doesn't show an picture of it. I tried to find something by looking in the big hole under the flywheel housing but I can't find a mark...??? Am I looking at the right place? Is there another hole in the flywheel housing for timing? Does somebody have a picture of this timing mark? Does it really exist? Also, id there an intelligent way of turning the engine other than by the crank pulley?

Finding timing marks on the flywheel is my last chance to check if I can make this thing work "not too bad" so it can be used as a snowblower again. If I can't make it start in the winter and it's not powerful enough to use the snowblower I'll just send it back in the woods where it laid before it took space in my yard...

Thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[The kid]

There should be a small metal removalbe plug on the lower left side sitting on the tracket under the foot rest on thr front where thr engine block and tranny join. Snap the plug out and shine a flashight inside. Take a socket and rotate the engine till you see TDC. Assuming the flywheels and trannies are similar in design (Perkins vs Continental) you can search "static timing" that's about my limit of help. In fact I've got a few pictures in my Refurbish thread showing where that plug is and showing the marks.

 

[gravzzy]

There should be a small metal removalbe plug on the lower left side sitting on the tracket under the foot rest on thr front where thr engine block and tranny join. Snap the plug out and shine a flashight inside. Take a socket and rotate the engine till you see TDC. Assuming the flywheels and trannies are similar in design (Perkins vs Continental) you can search "static timing" that's about my limit of help. In fact I've got a few pictures in my Refurbish thread showing where that plug is and showing the marks.

Thanks a lot Kid! I've just quickly looked at your thread (there's a lot of stuff!) and this makes sense, I found it strange that the marks would be in the bottom opening where there is no pointer. The marks in the flywheel housing are made by the tractor's manufacturer's and not by Perkins or Continental so I should have the marks too. There are a few metal caps around the flywheel housing so I think I'll remove them all until I find one with a pointer. If I understand right it is supposed to be the same side as the starter...??? I'll try to check it tonight if I can get rid of the snow currently falling as I write...

 

[The kid]

On page 20 of my refurbish thread shows the timing peep hole. Just for clarification this is on a Continental tractor. The trannies and flywheels may or may not be the same. As you can see there are stamped marks and number visible on the flywheel. That is if yours is fairly clean. I first thought the timing mark was up front. On the crank pulley. There are visible marks but no reference marks on the pulley. I guess once you get the TDC showing in the peep hole. One could grind a mark on to the pulley.

There is a reference notch on the peep hole so as to get exact settings. -kid

 

[gravzzy]

On page 20 of my refurbish thread shows the timing peep hole. Just for clarification this is on a Continental tractor. The trannies and flywheels may or may not be the same. As you can see there are stamped marks and number visible on the flywheel. That is if yours is fairly clean. I first thought the timing mark was up front. On the crank pulley. There are visible marks but no reference marks on the pulley. I guess once you get the TDC showing in the peep hole. One could grind a mark on to the pulley.

There is a reference notch on the peep hole so as to get exact settings. -kid

The flywheel sure isn't the same; mine is the type with kind of "fins" all around. If the timing hole is in the flywheel housing and not in the engine block there are chances that the hole location will be the same or similar... The shop manual tells there is a hole and a mark but not where it is. Can you confirm the hole is tha same side as the starter?

 

[The kid]

On the Continental. Yes it is.

 

[gravzzy]

Oh well that's right, the starter is to the opposite side on the Z145... Then the timing hole must be the one near the clutch pedal pivot...

 

[The kid]

Oh well that's right, the starter is to the opposite side on the Z145... Then the timing hole must be the one near the clutch pedal pivot...

Here's where it's located on mine.

 

[gravzzy]

There is a rubber plug there on the Perkins engine: I'll start with this one... Wish me luck! If I find the mark I'll then just have to transfer the reference on the timing cover and pulley, calculate and position the engine to the timing advance point and check if the timing mark in the fuel pump matches... If it doesn't I'll undo the pump's gear and try to shift it to the proper tooth... I hope it works since it's a pain to work on there with the loader in the way!

 

[shona13]

G'day gravzzy.
To check the pump timing ,the timing mark is as you said under the rubber plug ,left hand side of the engine roughly straight back from the end of the injector pump,rotate the engine till number one cylinder is on compression check the timing mark on the flywheel and when you can see TDC ,turn the engine BACK one half revolution then slowly crank the engine forward again till you see 24 degrees BTDC.
Remove the small inspection cover on the injector pump ,it should have a sealing wire and lead seal remove the two small setscrews ,(5/16 a/f ring spanner ) and the cork gasket, look inside and you will see a large circlip if the pump timing is correct the letter B should be inline with the square end of the circlip, you can loosen the pump retaining bolts and rotate the pump about 4/5 degrees ,that is the only timing adjustment you can do apart from removing the front of the engine ,timing case etc to access the drive gears.

Going by how you describe how the engine is running I would say possibly a blown head gasket which for the ad3/152 engine is not all that common,they usually suffer from ring/liner wear and that is quite often caused by lack of maintenance or the air intake hose either not fitted properly usually at the manifold end ,or the hose is past it,s use by date especially when the inlet valves wear and the engine breathes back a little bit, best bet would be to rebulid the engine ,if you are a truck mechanic it would not take more than a couple of days fairly straight forward engine rebuild kit would cost around 6 to 8 hundred dollars this gives you everything you need.

just a foot note the perkins engines are amongst the best diesel engines ever made, they are simple and reliable ,use very little fuel and sometimes they leak a bit of oil but hey it stops them rusting!!
happy days.
Hutch

 

[gravzzy]

Thanks Shona13. That's funny, the last time I heard the antirust oil leak thing, it was by a Land Rover guy...

I'm just back from checking how the marks align and according to what you said the pump drive gear would be one full tooth off. With the 24 degrees mark aligned in the oval hole under the rubber plug on the engine adapter plate, the squared end of the circlip comes near the A mark in the pump and I can see the B mark a bit farther at the bottom inside the pump. If I get it right, it wmust mean that the engine as it is now was running with crazy static advance but that's good news since I may just get along by unscrewing the gear and trying to mesh it back on the right tooth. If somebody has been able to put it wrong with the timing cover installed, I may be able to undo the gear and put it back right... I hope...

Here are some pics in case it helps somebody someday. I have to say I had a badluck that turned to be a luck. The starter broke (too) so I checked the flywheel marks in the starter hole so I see better. I would have never found the marks looking in the timing hole because its location is so unconvenient... Here are the said marks:


Here is the timing hole hidden under a fuel filter... Good idea... I marked the 24 degrees mark with paint and it's the only way to see it.



So this weekend when it's bright outside I'll try to put the timing back on the right tooth and reinstall the refyrbished starter and see if there is a difference in the engine's behaviour...

 

[shona13]

G'day Gravvsy.
I appologise ,When i checked my shop manual I looked at the perkins 203 four cylinder engine ,yours is a three cylinder as said .
So engine on compression ,24 degrees before top dead centre number one cylinder, the front cylinder, looking through the pump inspection hole the letter E should line up with the scribe mark on the circlip ,the scribe mark is in line with the centre of the hole in the circlip, note the only way to reset the pump timing is to remove the front of the tractor to access the timing cover, the gear cant be JUMPED a tooth with everything in place, the pump drive hub has a slot and the gear has an alignment pin ,this is so that the pump can only go in the correct position but in saying that I have looked at a tractor that had the pump replaced and the installer had lined up the pump hub wrong and had tightened the three pump drive retaining bolts and FORCED the alignment pin back out through the timing gear ,may be worth checking if the pump timing is out, again if the engine is running as you say it sounds like it may be addicted to "aerostart" easy start , ether etc, Long time ago I found a good use for these products generally they are excellent for cleaning pump internals ,carburetors alternators etc but definitly should not be used on the perkins engine even when the outside temp is below freezing,with a GOOD strong battery these engines will start very easily.
Anyway.
Happy days .
Hutch.

 

[gravzzy]

I looked back in my manual and found too that it was the E mark on three cylinders. Hopefully I haven't dismantled anything yet. I also thought I may not be on the compression stroke so I'll recheck it tonight by giving another flywheel turn: I'll have more time since I don't have to plow today. The pin pushed back hypothesis is to be considered for sure. If there's not enough space to jump a tooth in the timing cover that's the last thing that could be wrong, but the manual says to wedge the gear when removing the pump so it doesn't move... If tooth can't be jumped what is this precaution for?

 

[shona13]

G'day gravvsy.
If you have to remove the access plate to get to the pump drive gear ,the one with the engine oil filler cap when you look inside you will see what I mean, it may be refering to the damage that would be caused if the engine was cranked with the gear disconnected ??.
Happy Days.
Hutch.

 

[Frank Elwin]

Hi Kid
Frank from Oz here
I would love to see your refurb manual. I dont know how to find it .
Please can you help

Cheers
Frank

 

[gravzzy]

Hi Kid
Frank from Oz here
I would love to see your refurb manual. I dont know how to find it .
Please can you help

Cheers
Frank

Hi Frank,

Try this and let me know if you found what you were looking for. That might not be the manual I had in 2013 as I didn't find it on my computer, I googled like I did back then.

http://www.fidello.net/scott/Massey Ferguson MF135 Operator's Manual (from 1974).pdf

 

[klancf51]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and to tractors as well. My brother in law dropped me an old MF 135 with a loader in front and a snowblower so I can clear my parking with it this winter. I'm a heavy road truck mechanic so he expects me to make this old thing run better when he gets it back at spring.

I have to admit that I think this tractor is an absolute pile of junk, for it looks like it has never been maintained at all in its whole life, except when something blew... Everything is loose and leaks and every hose looks like it will blow soon. I'd mostly like to have the engine working fine at first and that's why I'm here.

I'm trying to check the fuel pump timing (it is a Perkins AD3 152), because the engine is almost un-startable, it smokes badly when I give it throttle, it runs like crap (certainly not on all 3 or it is de-timed) and it sounds like it exhausts in the intake at low RPM (I can't say idle because it's too rough to be called so). Somebody cut a hole in the end of the air filter so it stops to be thrown out of its housing!! I've been told the fuel pump has recently been removed and supposedly the tractor runs bad since then.

I'd need advice to find the timing marks; I can't use the crank pulley key for reference since the hydraulic pump drive parts would need to be removed and to do so I need to dismantle the whole front of the tractor (parts are all welded together...!?) and I have to work on it outside in the snow bank... No crane, no cherry picker, no hoist... The manuals I have states there is a TDC mark on the flywheel but doesn't show an picture of it. I tried to find something by looking in the big hole under the flywheel housing but I can't find a mark...??? Am I looking at the right place? Is there another hole in the flywheel housing for timing? Does somebody have a picture of this timing mark? Does it really exist? Also, id there an intelligent way of turning the engine other than by the crank pulley?

Finding timing marks on the flywheel is my last chance to check if I can make this thing work "not too bad" so it can be used as a snowblower again. If I can't make it start in the winter and it's not powerful enough to use the snowblower I'll just send it back in the woods where it laid before it took space in my yard...

Thanks in advance for your help!!

To answer this question: the flywheel timing marks on the Perkins AD3.152 can be viewed by removing the Timing Hole Adapter Plate Plug (rubber). The plug (part #732902M1) is located on the Transmission Adapter Plate as shown:

 

[PatrickS2222]

Hi, I had one of those pumps apart recently off a 4cyl Perkins to clean water, rust and all sorts of ugly c**p out of it, washed it up and fitted a seal kit and transfer pump vanes, back onto engine with filters and cleaned-out fuel system .... runs like a Swiss watch. I also learnt to overhaul them during my apprenticeship (decades ago) but this is only the second one I've dismantled since then.
I believe I can understand what is causing the puzzle regarding injection timing. Those lines are marked A through to H. Line A is currently on the circlip. Turn the engine one full revolution and line up at 24deg again - then line E should be on the circlip lower end. Loosen the pump and set it to correct position if necessary, but in one of those engines the timing would need to be way off to cause what you are describing. Everything else Shona said about them is correct - they are almost indestructible and only neglect will kill them.
It sounds more likely to be burnt valves or head gasket blown between two adjacent cylinders. When you crank the engine with the fuel shut off listen for any tell-tale sounds of leaking valves in the inlet or exhaust, also any signs of weak cylinders where low compression seems to give less resistance to the starter's cranking effort.
My MF40 loader has an indirect-injection version of the same engine, it ran like a chaff-cutter and its head gasket looked like this - that was back about 5 years ago when I bought the machine.

They are indeed easy to work on - a cylinder head is not difficult to remove. It may only require tappet clearances reset.
Let us know what you find. Cheers, Patrick. :drink:

 

[PatrickS2222]

Hi Gravzzy, any luck in sorting this out?

 

[SaintJames]

thank you for posting this schematic... we have just re-started our AD3-152 after a top end clean up.... tank was removed and cleaned, the new plugs, wires, points, condensor and cap plus a new coil were added and she fired up but seems to need timing... -and I could find no marks like others --- now will look for the rubber plug and bring our timing light to the farm, to try to smooth this old girl out... We're able to use non-ethanol gas so I think we'll get this in proper tune once it is timed. Many thanks.