Techniques to picking up gravel w/ FEL ?

[bcarwell]

Hi all,
I have a Kubota 7500 (23HP) with a FEL. I also have several piles of gravel that are about 1/2 inch rocks. The piles are maybe 5 feet wide and 5 feet tall.
I need to move them out of sight. My FEL has no teeth and I don't have time to buy any attachments- gotta make do with what I got.
The question is: do you have any techniques for getting the most gravel in the bucket each time you attack the pile ? In the past in trying to move gravel, I just don't quite have the technique down. I end up pushing alot of the pile over and spreading it out, and having to shovel gravel into the bucket.
I've tried "charging" the pile at mid-heighth and trying to "jiggle" or tilt the bucket upwards as I continue moving into the pile. I've tried moving into the pile with the lower lip of the FEL bucket parallel to the ground and at ground level, e.g. moving into the very bottom of the pile. But I still end up pushing alot of the pile all over the ground. Maybe take a little bite off the top and jiggle, then back out and do it again ? It seems like maybe I don't have enough momentum with a compact tractor, or I'm afraid to really "charge" the pile.
Any technique suggestions or tricks ? Backdragging onto a flat 4x8 sheet of plywood ? Or trying to use the plywood somehow vertically as a back stop if I could imobilize it. Getting my wife to shovel instead of me ? Throwing topsoil on the piles and planting nasturtiums ? Offering the piles for free on Craig's list (I have no use for them).

Bob

Bob

 

[JerryG]

Tilt back and raise loader at the same time as you go into the pile.
Like your slicing the front of the stack off from the bottom to the top while tilting the bucket back.

 

[EdC]

I've not had much luck "charging the pile"; my tractor does not have enough ooomph. What has worked the best for me is to drive up to the gravel pile with the bucket bottom parallel with the ground and maybe a foot or so off the ground then drive forward into the pile while curling the bucket. It almost causes a little avalanche of gravel that fills the FEL.

I am still anxiously waiting for the toothbar to get here though.

 

[RoyJackson]

I hate to tell you this, but without a toothbar, it's going to be tough.

However, put several hundred pounds of ballast on the 3PH. That's a must!

If the gravel is clumpy from setting around, use a pick and break into it enough to get the full width up your bucket into it. Once you get through the clumped together outer layer, the inside of the pile might be looser...maybe.

I never had much luck moving gravel (only had to do it once) until I got my ballast box (500-600 pounds). Even with a toothbar, my 790 would set and spin...and that's a tractor weighing considerably more then your B7500. It did work well when I added the ballast, however.
BTW, this stuff had been setting around almost a year and was really clumpy.

If all else fails, shovel it into the bucket... Keep that bucket low when you're moving it!

Good luck!

 

[gordon21]

Roy is right. Without a lot of ballast, a FEL is useless.

I used my FEL for a few months with only a box blade and 240# of suitcase weights hanging on the edges for ballast. It worked good, or so I thought. I eventually added a backhoe. NOW the FEL's capability was apparent and the overall stability was dramatically better.

A pile of gravel will stop your tractor and let its tires spin unless you have enough weight on the back to increase the traction. It would be very hard to put too much ballast on the back.

Just as the bucket is ready to go into the pile, tilt it down about 30 degrees from level. Jab it into the pile and then curl it up in one smooth motion as you raise the bucket at the same time while inching forward about 6-8" With a little practice you can fill the bucket full. Keep it tilted back to keep all the gravel in it and then lower the arms close to the ground asap once you back away from the pile. Always cary a full bucket as close to the ground as possible.

If you try to carry 500# 5-6' up in the air with a small tractor and you hit a 5" pothole with a front tire, you will have an interesting ride. Try carrying that same load 6-8' up in the air and when you hit that pothole, you can then call your tractor buddies to come help you pick up your tractor from its side.

 

[RalphVa]

On my 4010 with a 53" bucket, I need about 300-400# of ballast on the back.

With bucket level, curl it a bit as you touch into the pile and drive forward and then lift lift up, all at the same time; they're all rather slight movements; don't get too rough on the controls in either of these. If you end up a little short, just level the bucket, lower it and try again. I've raised if fairly high and jiggled it a bit to shake the gravel to the back of the bucket before trying again. Just make sure you have plenty of ballast! Best thing would be a box on the carryall and a load of gravel in it to start. Need loaded rear tires, too.

I hauled about 20 tons of gravel along a trail that runs across my hill and through the woods behind my house and am hauling mulch a fair bit down to the garden. The technique of loading the bucket is about the same in both mulch and gravel.

Ralph

 

[LBrown59]

1*I hate to tell you this, but without a toothbar, it's going to be tough.
2*However, put several hundred pounds of ballast on the 3PH. That's a must!
3*If the gravel is clumpy from setting around, use a pick and break into it enough to get the full width of your bucket into it. Once you get through the clumped together outer layer, the inside of the pile might be looser...maybe.
4*I never had much luck moving gravel (only had to do it once) until I got my ballast box (500-600 pounds). Even with a toothbar, my 790 would set and spin...and that's a tractor weighing considerably more then your B7500. It did work well when I added the ballast, however.
BTW, this stuff had been setting around almost a year and was really clumpy.
5*If all else fails, shovel it into the bucket...
6*Keep that bucket low when you're moving it!Good luck!

1*I've never had any problem without a tooth bar on my Kubota BX23.
However the tillers on the old bolens and the new CC 2554 plus the BH on the bx23 make pretty good tooth bars.
2*The BH is all the ballast I need on the bx23.
3* I use the BH. It makes a great pick. For dirt I use one of the tillers or the BH.
4*I've moved quite a bit of gravel and slag with the BX23 with no problems.
5*My shovels for doing something like that is the front blade on the old bolens or the front blade on the CC2554. Just lower the FEL bucket level with the ground and shove the gravel into the bucket with the Bolens or the CC 2554.
6*Absoulety

 

[LBrown59]

I've not had much luck "charging the pile"; my tractor does not have enough ooomph. What has worked the best for me is to drive up to the gravel pile with the bucket bottom parallel with the ground and maybe a foot or so off the ground then drive forward into the pile while curling the bucket. It almost causes a little avalanche of gravel that fills the FEL.

I am still anxiously waiting for the toothbar to get here though.

I can load gravel into the BX23 fel bucket.
No tooth bar = no problem.

 

[MossRoad]

The problem with rocks and no teeth is that the wide area of your bucket blade is distributing the force of the tractor across the entire area of the rock pile. Kind of like why snowshoes keep you walking on top of the snow, rather than sinking in. Putting teeth on a bucket is like taking off your snowshoes... it allows you to sink into it.

Unfortunately, rocks is one of those things that is hard to dig into without teeth. Anyhow, here's the technique I use, wether I am using my small rock bucket with teeth or my large, light material bucket without teeth. The technique is the same for both and comes from an International Harvestor industrial loader operator's manual from the late 70's.

Keep the bucket parallel to the ground.

Drop it to the ground and then curl it back about an inch so the leading edge doesn't dig into the ground.

In your lowest range and gear, drive into the pile (Do not "charge at the pile").

As the tractor slows, keep driving forward as you slowly curl the bucket back and lift at the same time. This will cause the material above the bucket to fall into it and the pressure of lifting and curling will "crowd" the bucket full of material for you.

After a few tries, you will get the feel of what works best for the material that you are loading.

 

[LBrown59]

Hi all,
I have a Kubota 7500 (23HP) with a FEL. I also have several piles of gravel that are about 1/2 inch rocks. The piles are maybe 5 feet wide and 5 feet tall.
I need to move them out of sight. My FEL has no teeth and I don't have time to buy any attachments- gotta make do with what I got.
The question is: do you have any techniques for getting the most gravel in the bucket each time you attack the pile ? In the past in trying to move gravel, I just don't quite have the technique down. I end up pushing alot of the pile over and spreading it out, and having to shovel gravel into the bucket.
I've tried "charging" the pile at mid-heighth and trying to "jiggle" or tilt the bucket upwards as I continue moving into the pile. I've tried moving into the pile with the lower lip of the FEL bucket parallel to the ground and at ground level, e.g. moving into the very bottom of the pile. But I still end up pushing alot of the pile all over the ground. Maybe take a little bite off the top and jiggle, then back out and do it again ? It seems like maybe I don't have enough momentum with a compact tractor, or I'm afraid to really "charge" the pile.
Any technique suggestions or tricks ? Backdragging onto a flat 4x8 sheet of plywood ? Or trying to use the plywood somehow vertically as a back stop if I could imobilize it. Getting my wife to shovel instead of me ? Throwing topsoil on the piles and planting nasturtiums ? Offering the piles for free on Craig's list (I have no use for them).
Bob

I sure could use free gravel . Just load them up in your tractor and bring them over here to me.
Oh I forgot you're having trouble getting the gravel into the FEL bucket.

 

[Houndsman]

bcarwell,
all of the actual advice, above is what I've had success on---without a toothbar. One other thing I learned here in the hallowed halls of TBN, is to use your FEL to backdrag the material off the top of the pile a few times, then slowly advance and curl at the bottom, to the top. Remember to back drag off the top, first, if the pile is not cooperating.
v/r mark

 

[Rowdius]

bcarwell,
all of the actual advice, above is what I've had success on---without a toothbar. One other thing I learned here in the hallowed halls of TBN, is to use your FEL to backdrag the material off the top of the pile a few times, then slowly advance and curl at the bottom, to the top. Remember to back drag off the top, first, if the pile is not cooperating.
v/r mark

We have a winner! You do not need a teeth to load gravel.

As Houndsman said, backdrag the top of the pile, this does two things: 1. It allows you to attack loose material that will flow into the bucket; 2. it allows you to use the back of the pile to "push" the gravel into the bucket. Keep pulling the top of the pile down, and you'll have an eaiser time, even if you turn it into a 2 foot tall windrow instead of a pile.

There are several ways to attack the pile. One person mentioned setting the blade of the bucket on a cutting angle, then curling and lifting your bucket. This works pretty good, if you are careful not to dig huge holes in front of, and under the pile. If that happens, it just slows down loading, and gets lots of dirt in the rock. If you use this method the cutting edge of the bucket should just skim over the ground, not dig in. If it is digging in, lighten up on the controls. Once you master this technique you can pick up dirt, sand, whatever on pavement without tearing up the pavement, and without spreading the material all over the road. A tip for this technique is that most loader buckets have a little play in them, esp if they are not brand new. You'll know you have enough downward pressure on the bucket with you see that play load down, but not gouge the ground/pavement.

If you are pulling the top of the pile down, then you can just level your bucket, lower it to the ground and drive into the pile. Don't crash into the pile, and then try to load the bucket. Make the tractor's speed and power work together. Don't raise your front wheels off the ground, esp if you have fwd. If you are just learning, slow down. As your bucket slides into the pile, and as (or maybe just before) you feel/hear the engine start to load up, slightly curl the bucket while lifting it. Driving into the pile, curling the bucket and lifting the loader should be all one smooth motion. Think of the cutting edge of the bucket as a knife. You want to take smooth slices, not try to gouge a hunk out. Once you master the motions, you can speed up and loading the bucket will become eaiser. If you are doing it right it should be possible to have a mounding load of gravel, or to even have gravel coming over the top of the bucket as you load it.
After you load the bucket, if you are moving the gravel with the tractor, then lower the bucket and take off. If you are loading trucks, then turn as you are backing up from the pile, and as you go forward raise the bucket to clear the truck.

While I agree having enough weight on the tractor is important, proper technique is probably just as important. If you spend very much time on construction sites you will see people on backhoes and loaders with way more weight than your machine spinning their tires because they are "drivers" not operators. Learn to be an operator. You've invested lots of good money on a good machine, but to get the most out of it, you have to invest time and attention to build the skills. I guess this is true for about anything, sports, arts, other trades. This forum is a good place to start, but some of it can only be learned from the seat. (which is fun anyway )

 

[LBrown59]

bcarwell,
all of the actual advice, above is what I've had success on---without a toothbar. One other thing I learned here in the hallowed halls of TBN, is to use your FEL to backdrag the material off the top of the pile a few times, then slowly advance and curl at the bottom, to the top. Remember to back drag off the top, first, if the pile is not cooperating.
v/r mark

I've used that trick at times depending on the situation.

 

[daTeacha]

It's been pretty well discussed at this point, but the main trick is coordinating 3 motions -- forward slowly, lift and curl the bucket. Use low range or low gear. Use 4 wheel drive if you have it. Keep the rpm up to make sure the hydraulics are working their best.

If you get one of the 3 motions out of synch with the other two you will either simply stop or get just a little gravel in the bucket. Ideally, your forward speed and lift/curl will keep the cutting edge just a few inches below the surface of the pile as the bucket goes forward and up. Practice, practice, practice. If you go forward too fast, you'll probably stall out the engine or the hydraulics. If you lift too fast you won't get much gravel. If you curl too fast you will be trying to bulldoze the pile and won't get anything but a dent in the pile. You will probably be pretty good at this little skill when you have the first pile about done. For the stuff you spread out, just set your bucket flat and on the ground and drive forward over it. You will be surprized how much you can pick up.

I had a driveway overfilled with gravel about 2 years ago. I could drive up the curving drive with the bucket down and get about half a load. Then raise a little, curl it back so the gravel went to the back, drive up again with the bucket down, and I could get very close to a full bucket of #57 limestone. This was uphill, which helped a lot, and the gravel was pretty deep and loose.

I have about 900 lb on the hitch plus 130 lb on each rear wheel of a DX29

 

[LBrown59]

1* Tutored my wife on operating the BX23 FEL.
She didn't do bad for a first timer.
Kinda slow but still faster than a shovel. Can't brag on her though cause it don't take to much to beat a shovel .LOL
Told her I was glad I wasn't paying her $40 an hour for moving dirt.

 

[HomeBrew2]

No toothbar needed here either ... but I've only moved ~15 tons of gravel so far. Using JerryG's method, I can have as little as 5' rear blade on for ballast.

 

[wushaw]

I had a B7500 that moved lots of gravel with no toothbar. It had filled tires and the 48" KK BB on the back.
It is just a matter of a constant push-lift-curl...simple

 

[Egon]

Ahh -- Seat time!

 

[Duke4AZ]

Yup, seat time. Skill is developed over time, with patience and attention. The techniques presented here helped me move over 120 tons of dirt, sand, gravel and babyheads over the past year . . . no tooth bar and only a 4' box blade in the rear. More rear weight made the transporting the load from location to location smoother but I was certainly able to fill my FEL bucket to capacity and lift it to its max height with the ballast that I had.

I started with the jousting charge technique . . . until I actually read the FEL operators manual . . . which I did not get with the tractor and had to download. Sure that worked to get material in the bucket but efficiency was zilch and it seem to be a lot of work for me as well as the tractor, not to mention it is not good for the tractor. Eventually, after a few hours of quality seat time, I got the hang of it. The first time you do it right you will know it and you will begin to learn what it feels like . . . muscle memory will develop and eventualy you do it without thinking.

Practice, practice practice. This is one activity I can't get enough of and look forward to every opportunity I have to work on skill development.

 

[SFish]

My gravel scooping technique requires much skill and finesse. I only put gravel I am going to use later on a gravel pad against a tough excavated bank (same for the mulch pile). Scoop and go. Always pile your stuff where you can easily get at it with the tractor later.

Steve