Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie)

   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie) #61  
Well, we have pulled the trigger on a Branson 4225h with loader, backhoe, and grapple. To be delivered in April. Thanks for all the advice in this thread.

Both the Branson and a Kubota L4060 would have fit the bill, and -- in our neck of the woods -- were priced similarly. The Branson led on specs that mattered, but even more important was dealer.

The Branson dealer is en route between our home and the property we'll use the tractor on. Knowledgeable guy, 20 years selling Bransons, repair shop where techs get their hands dirty really fixing stuff. Was much happier showing me what custom mods they had figured out for a disabled fellow to be able to use a backhoe that going over paperwork in his messy office. Together with the "do things mechanically" philosophy of the Branson design, this inspired confidence for the long term. Kubota dealer also good guy, long-term dealer, but his gleaming glass-wall dealership is an hour in the wrong direction, and philosophy is much more "when there's a problem, we'll swap out the electronics with a replacement so you're quickly on your way". That's convenient when you're under warranty, but smells of $$ afterwards and who knows what happens when your model is 10 years old. The Branson dealer did a better job explaining to me what's special about Kubota's HST+ than the Kubota dealer, who pointed me at their marketing material for "details" since he clearly didn't know. Bottom line at Kubota was "we're the market leader so we're clearly good, we don't need to sell too much".

Kioti and LS had tractors which weren't bad, but seemed (on paper) less a good fit. Their dealers struck out their at bats by not having the appropriate models in stock to see and touch, and more importantly by bad selling. The Kioti dealer decided within 5 minutes his "best selling tractor" (even if he didn't have any in stock...) was the answer for me, and was utterly impervious to gentle prods that I had (based on suggestions here, in part) been thinking of something quite different. The LS dealer offered a good price, but tried selling by putting down other brands with information I knew from my research was factually incorrect. Since both dealers weren't conveniently located either, really no reason to keep them in the mix.

Looking forward to doing stuff in the spring!

(By the way, I appreciated all the feedback above also on what to do myself vs outsource, tractor vs ATV vs miniex etc. I didn't reply to all of it directly, and some of it just reflected differences how people interpreted my description of our needs. But it all helped in our thinking, including just helping us become clearer on what we do and don't want to do right off the bat!)

Congratulations on your purchase. I was curious which way you would go. I actually prefer the more mechanical philosophy myself, but where we are there aren't any Branson dealers that have impressed me.

And for us we found Kubota's HST+ to be a big advantage in hilly country. As your Branson dealer probably told you, HST + is nothing more than an old fashioned two speed mechanical two-speed gear box bolted between a standard 3 speed HST and a standard bull gear rear axle. The same thing can be found in tractors and trucks today behind any type of transmission from old straight gear to power shift to HST. Bulletproof and perfected a long time ago. So that extra High/low box is not new, but it is more expense and does take up space. Fifty years ago most every farm and commercial truck either had or optioned that same feature. They were called "split shifters".

Anyway, congrats and can't wait to hear how it works out. I've never had a bad tractor....or even a mediocre one. Just different ones. Get all the manuals you can, and keep an eye open for a BH thumb.
rScotty
 
   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie) #62  
Congrats on the new tractor! Does it come with the new BL200 loader?

They were called "split shifters".

I remember driving wildland fire trucks and school buses with those. If you timed the shift wrong you got a false neutral with a nasty rattling noise as the gear dogs rubbed against each other but didn't mesh. Exciting when you're going down hill with 600 gallons of water in the tank and marginal air brakes.

From the videos the HST+ one looks like it's been greatly improved over those and can shift automatically.

The dealer's a big part of it. I had to beg the big local Kubota dealer to send me a quote. My Branson dealer took time to show me their shop and dyno.

BTW the Branson uses a clone or licensed copy of the Bosch VE injector pump so should it ever be a problem lots of people know how to work on it.
 
   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie)
  • Thread Starter
#63  
Congrats on the new tractor! Does it come with the new BL200 loader?
Yes, BL200 loader w/3 welded hooks*, BH860 backhoe w/mechanical thumb*, HLA grapple, loaded tires*. * = "freebies" (+-, it's of course a relative term) added by dealer.
 
   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie)
  • Thread Starter
#65  
Well, we have pulled the trigger on a Branson 4225h with loader, backhoe, and grapple. To be delivered in April. Thanks for all the advice in this thread.
[...]
(By the way, I appreciated all the feedback above also on what to do myself vs outsource, tractor vs ATV vs miniex etc. I didn't reply to all of it directly, and some of it just reflected differences how people interpreted my description of our needs. But it all helped in our thinking, including just helping us become clearer on what we do and don't want to do right off the bat!)
Well, just to close the loop, I hereby announce the arrival of Josephine (named by a family member), who was delivered last Friday and is already making herself useful. At 5 hours on the meter, she's run several loads of PT lumber down a wet trail, moved some brush and a pile of rocks, and dug out a stump with the backhoe (pretty slowly and with many unnecessary movements, as I was learning backhoe controls...).
IMG_0025.JPG
And made a soggy wet forest road temporarily worse (cause we really should have waited another week for it to dry out but were impatient), thereby creating more work for herself for the next few days.
 
   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie) #67  
When I got my 3725 I also couldn't wait for the ground to dry out and made some ruts. They cleaned up later on though. I recently got a backhoe for it and it is difficult to learn to use. I'm going to put some restrictors on the boom cylinder so it doesn't move so fast.
 
   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie) #68  
When I got my 3725 I also couldn't wait for the ground to dry out and made some ruts. They cleaned up later on though. I recently got a backhoe for it and it is difficult to learn to use. I'm going to put some restrictors on the boom cylinder so it doesn't move so fast.
o

What kind of restrictors? Where do you get them? I'm with you on some BH cylinders seeming to move too fast.
I've noticed that on several different makes, so it's not brand specific. And it's not always the same cylinders either. For me it is usually swing that is too fast.

Until I get the experience at making compound motions to match the masters, some sort of tunable restrictors would sure help smooth my hoeing.

Of course working with the engine idling is the simple way to slow cylinders down without a downside. With the simple open hydraulics on my Kubota and I think on your Branson, it is engine RPM that sets the limits for BH cylinder speed.

Another thing I've noticed using different hoes is that there does seem to be a difference in the quality of the control valves themselves.
The Kubota is way better than the Deere at making small accurate movements. Maybe that's partly because the JD hydralic system is different, but it's also in the valves I think.
rScotty
 
   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie) #69  
I got some of these: 1/4 NPT 5 GPM Prince WFC-4 In-Line Flow Control | Prince Mfg | Brands | www.surpluscenter.com

they're one way. With two I can tune both directions differently and I won't be inducing cavitation as would happen with a single two way valve. Since one direction is gravity assisted and has a smaller effective piston area I think I might want to be able to tune them independently. That's my theory anyhow, I have not installed them yet and I may have an incomplete understanding. Also I can mount them on the cylinder where they are easy to get to.

I have one in my loader set to restrict flow coming out when I dump the bucket. It's to reduce "bucket flop". I can tune out most of the bucket flop while still having it dump fast enough.

Runing the engine slower will make the response slower in general except for lowering the boom which is still going to be mostly gravity driven, and thats the one I have the biggest problem with. My BH's valve stack is made by Walvoil. I have seen them offered in catalogs so they're not a no-name brand, but I don't know how their quality rates. Most of my BH's valves have a fairly broad operating range so I can feather them reasonably well while operating at 2000 rpm. Except the boom raise/lower, which is much touchier than the others. It'll feather but a tiny bit more hand motion and it moves much more oil which jerks the boom and bounces the tractor. The restrictors won't change the valve's response but they should limit the top speed of the motion.
 
   / Tell me if I'm on the right track (newbie)
  • Thread Starter
#70  
I recently got a backhoe for it and it is difficult to learn to use. I'm going to put some restrictors on the boom cylinder so it doesn't move so fast.

This board is great. I posted that picture this morning after breakfast, then went out a did some backhoe work. I'm sorta getting the hang of it, except -- me too -- that touchy boom cylinder! I just came back thinking that's one of the things I'll have to ask my dealer about, and whaddya know, you guys are talking about it in *my* thread :)

It's sort of like going to the pub with a thought on your mind, plopping yourself on the bar stool and discovering your mates are talking about that very thing!
 
 
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