Tesla semi

[vvanders]

I would be. Right now it's a pipe dream. There is nothing on the horizon that is going to make a dent in our current structure, and with the mindless greenies winning the war against nukes, it's only going to get worse.

In my mind Hydro and Solar + Storage with some mix of Nuclear is where we're probably going to land.

Here in the PNW we've got *tons* of hydro power. Our local PUD is only6 % Oil based and the rest is pretty green. Hydro certainly has it's own ecological issues but it's much more practical than other sources in areas where it's deployable.

 

[dragoneggs]

Where is the oil come from? The truth is that ecar is about 5 times more efficient than ice.

About 5 to 1. ICE car produces (all included) about five times more polution per life of the car than ecar. Ecars are quiet, no more rumbling exhausts.

Where is your data???

 

[toppop52]

No one's screaming about the oil subsidies that exist either if we want to start talking about those. Just gas production alone was on the order of 10B(yes billion with a B) in 2010 and 5B in 2013. U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Got a citation for danger in accidents? Tesla has the highest safety rating of any passenger vehicle.

Road wear is no different than a half-ton pickup, unless you're telling me modern infrastructure can't handle more trucks on the road(our 1500 Eco Diesel and Tesla weight near the same).

Carbon footprint isn't too hard to figure out. The only substantial difference between a traditional car and EV is the battery pack/motor. Here's a study that finds battery impact is less than 5% of total impact of vehicle and EVs outstrip ICE by a pretty wide margin: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es903729a

To put it in other words, if you get 100k mi from the lifetime of a car the difference in battery production is going to have to be the same as burning 3,300+ gallons of gas at 30mpg. I just don't see how that gets anywhere close to battery production as lithium mining is pretty low impact(mostly salt pools) and aluminum/copper production is pretty well understood.

What is the actual carbon footprint vs say a diesel Cruze ? I’m seeing lots of things said but not too many real numbers. Plus modern cars are not being dumped 100000 miles, more like 300000, your battery pack last that long without replacement? If it weighs the same as your truck, then it is a lot heavier than the average sedan, and yes batteries are dangerous in accident scenarios.
I am not saying you are wrong and I am right, I’m just not seeing the proof, and buyers aren’t exactly flocking to them. The article you cited only addressed battery production.

 

[toppop52]

So this diagram from the study I linked earlier puts ICE pollution at 25% MFG, 75% Operation (40% / 160%, from bottom figure).

Battery production all-up as 12% (15% / 160%) of an ICE's footprint.

Assuming you get your energy from a clean source(hydro, solar, etc) instead of traditional natural gas power production as listed in the article you'd see EVs as 55% / 160% so about 1/3 less emissions than traditional vehicle.

I'd agree with you that it's not 5x, but that's certainly no small drop either. Add that with less maintenance, cheaper to operate and 100% torque from 0 RPM I see EVs getting pretty compelling within the next 10-15 years.

Assuming you get your energy from solar? It痴 a miniscule drop in the bucket, these cars, not just the batteries, require at least as much energy to build. Where is the shipping and disposal cost and footprint?

 

[dragoneggs]

Assuming you get your energy from solar? Itç—´ a miniscule drop in the bucket, these cars, not just the batteries, require at least as much energy to build. Where is the shipping and disposal cost and footprint?

Yes, the mining, processing, and disposal of heavy metals to manufacture these batteries is not 'clean'. Tesla (started in California) had to locate their big battery plant outside of Reno, NV because California said, HECK NO! It's one of those... "Yeah I want it!... but not in my back yard."

 

[houstonscott]

Will one of you EV owners run it to zero and charge it up to 100% with your Honda generator and tell us how many miles per gallon you got.

 

[dragoneggs]

Will one of you EV owners run it to zero and charge it up to 100% with your Honda generator and tell us how many miles per gallon you got.

And how long to fully charge? If I'm out in the Yellowstone with my generator, I want to know if this pitstop is an overnighter and I am pitching a tent or time enough to get pop and chips for the next segment?

 

[vvanders]

What is the actual carbon footprint vs say a diesel Cruze ? I知 seeing lots of things said but not too many real numbers. Plus modern cars are not being dumped 100000 miles, more like 300000, your battery pack last that long without replacement? If it weighs the same as your truck, then it is a lot heavier than the average sedan, and yes batteries are dangerous in accident scenarios.
I am not saying you are wrong and I am right, I知 just not seeing the proof, and buyers aren稚 exactly flocking to them. The article you cited only addressed battery production.

Did you see the paper I linked?

The vehicle we studied was comparable to a Volkswagen Golf in size and power, had a range of around 200 km per charge (battery weight, 300 kg; battery capacity, 0.114 kWh/kg battery (10)) and an assumed lifetime of 150 000 km.

Battery packs are holding up just fine: Tesla Model S battery degradation data | Steinbuch based on the real world data you'd see degradation to 90% capacity at 300k miles which seems pretty reasonable to me. It also lines up with what I'm seeing with my pack at 61k.

If you can link me a single injury/death related to battery packs happy to admit that point. However there's some pretty good breakdown of the whole battery pack/fire thing( Number of Tesla Fire-Related Deaths Per Year Equals What? | Inside EVs ) that points to it being a non-issue. On the flip side of that not having a giant mass of metal up front that you have to hinge under the passengers means that you can build a safer car. The pack actually acts as a shear reinforcement and makes the Model S one of the safest cars. Heck the broke the testing machine for roll-over test at 4Gs.

As for demand, Tesla is production constrained right now, and that's for cars at the $100k price point. There's over 250,000 pre-orders for the Model 3. There's demand for a car that's done right with the matching charging infrastructure.

 

[vvanders]

And how long to fully charge? If I'm out in the Yellowstone with my generator, I want to know if this pitstop is an overnighter and I am pitching a tent or time enough to get pop and chips for the next segment?

There's a supercharger at 191 & 20. Takes about 30 minutes to top up, hardly an over-nighter. There's also another one at Jackson and one going into Cody soon.

 

[Redneck in training]

Did you say quiet??
Will Harley make an electric bike with a throttle control noise generating system?

I hate HD motorcycles. We live about a mile from paved road and I hear every HD. I don't get why motorcycles manufacturers can't come up with a quiet muflers.