Tesla semi

[Sodo]

As to the rest of them, let's just eliminate them all. Every single tax break, every single direct or indirect subsidy, to anybody and everybody. No picking favorites, no shaping" the economy. That's not a legitimate function of governments, and never was.

Your govt is protecting you more than you can possibly know. USA would be a polluted cesspool. Like Beijing.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

You don't need to add regenerative braking to the trailer. You get all the energy of the trailer as it is pushing on the truck as long as you don't use mechanical brakes. Electric motor has maximum torque at zero rpm so no gearbox is necessary provided you can cool it. If the motor uses shaft mounted fan for cooling than you will have only fraction of minute to speed it up to high speed. Therefore most EV motors are liquid cooled and have sinle ratio step down gearbox.

I have never driven a semi, but have towed more than a few times and a couple times with no trailer brakes. Having a heavy load pushing my truck around is unnerving and on the ice 4x so. But you might be able to get by with traditional brakes on the trailer that only kick in when needed?

 

[crazyal]

Oil and gas gets 15.5 billion/year subsidy in direct payment or tax breaks from federal goevernment and 3 billion from the states. Needles to say that it is not only O&G that gets those. If you add cost of defending of shipping routes the cost jumps to about estimated 52 billion/year.

This has been debunked over and over again.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillinginfo/2016/02/22/debunking-myths-about-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/#78a955126e1c
Even if it did cost the US government $.10/ gallon we pay $.184 a gallon at the pump. So the government is still making a profit off of gas sales.

 

[crazyal]

You don't need to add regenerative braking to the trailer. You get all the energy of the trailer as it is pushing on the truck as long as you don't use mechanical brakes. Electric motor has maximum torque at zero rpm so no gearbox is necessary provided you can cool it. If the motor uses shaft mounted fan for cooling than you will have only fraction of minute to speed it up to high speed. Therefore most EV motors are liquid cooled and have sinle ratio step down gearbox.

Have you ever driven a truck? The rear brakes on a trailer are the most important brakes when the trailer is loaded. Without them a semi would jackknife.

 

[toppop52]

Oil and gas gets 15.5 billion/year subsidy in direct payment or tax breaks from federal goevernment and 3 billion from the states. Needles to say that it is not only O&G that gets those. If you add cost of defending of shipping routes the cost jumps to about estimated 52 billion/year.

There are tax breaks, but can you prove both numbers you claim?

 

[toppop52]

I hadn't thought about local trucking, only long haul, maybe the time is now for that use of an EV to be more cost effective! The heavy urban areas have more problem with air pollution which would give EVs an extra leg up, plus you eliminate the problem with recharging, as long as you aren't running the trucks 24/7.

All you folks screaming about the true cost of EVs, what is the true cost of oil production? Are you taking into account all the subsidies the oil industry gets? V or any entity for that matter that can afford to buy its politicians! Don't forget to add in all the help the internal combustion engine has gotten the last hundred years with all the government funding directly and indirectly, both nationally and internationally. I can't imagine anyone every figuring out the 'true" cost of anything!

When the auto industry was born subsidies didn’t exist, they lived or died on their ability to perform.

 

[toppop52]

Plus not counting the fuel fuel costs which are obviously going to be way cheaper, the maintenance cost would be much cheaper, and if you added regenerative braking to the trailers as well, maintenance costs would drop even more!

Would you even need gearing with an electric truck or would properly sized motors for the full load take care of it???

What is that going to cost to build, I mean including taxpayer contribution? All this regenerative braking on the trailers sounds great, but it ain’t free. Who’s paying for all these lumber, log, reefers, freezer, car carrier, chemical, loose media, tankers, container, etc...trailers? There are going to be diesels on the road for at least decades, as the majority, are they going to have to sacrifice load to haul regenerative braking systems they can’t use? How will this work exactly?

 

[toppop52]

That can be estimated. In example average lenght of Fedex delivery route is about 160 miles. 5-7 miles/gal. Estimated cost of charging is about 10% of the diesel cost. 160 miles, day translates to about 50000 miles/year divided by 6 MPG times $2.5/gal of diesel plust 10 oil changes. Cost of fuel and oil is about $21500/year. Estimated cost of charging is about 2150/year. I am just guessing cost increase of electric truck be about 50000 (most likely it is less). So if the life of the vehicle is 500000 miles the saving on the fuel will be about $185000. Needlesto say the cost of oil based fuels is volatile so it might be way more or way less.

What about batteries, they are not lasting half a million miles? And again, where is your proof of what you post?

 

[toppop52]

It translates in about 0.10 USD/gal.

Proof?

 

[tungularafishcamp]

What is that going to cost to build, I mean including taxpayer contribution? All this regenerative braking on the trailers sounds great, but it ain’t free. Who’s paying for all these lumber, log, reefers, freezer, car carrier, chemical, loose media, tankers, container, etc...trailers? There are going to be diesels on the road for at least decades, as the majority, are they going to have to sacrifice load to haul regenerative braking systems they can’t use? How will this work exactly?

Like everything the first few hundred thousand are going to cost a lot more than the millions that follow. And like everything else, it won't happen all at once but one segment at a time. Probably starting with the companies that own a fleet of local delivery trucks.

I am not an engineer by any means but the wheel motors I have seen that capture the regenerative braking are tiny, while these would have to be upsized in a truck I don't think they would be any heavier than existing truck brakes.

And I totally disagree that diesel will only be around for decades, it will be around around a lot longer, in my opinion. The amount of concentrated energy in those dead dinosaurs is going to be hard( maybe impossible) to replace, at least until we have flux capacitors I think there will always be applications where it is the best and possibly only workable solution.

In my own industry, commercial fishing, while day boats could and will eventually become EVs or possibly hybrid, I can't imagine it being possible for the boats out fishing for weeks/months on end, power needed is just too large and the consequences of losing power are really too large!

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Your govt is protecting you more than you can possibly know. USA would be a polluted cesspool. Like Beijing.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with subsidies to politically connected interests.

 

[MossRoad]

I don't think he was suggesting NO trailer brakes, just not regenerative brakes on the trailer.

 

[cqaigy2]

When the auto industry was born subsidies didn稚 exist, they lived or died on their ability to perform.

Possibly true in the sense of what we call subsidies today, but that doesn't mean they didn't manipulate the market and laws in ways that pushed money toward them over and above straight market pressures of supply and demand.

 

[Sodo]

regenerative braking to the trailers as well, maintenance costs would drop even more!

Not brakes per se,,,,, trailers will have drive motors that are 途egenerative brakes? That will be the next huge improvement in traction. That will take awhile though, lots of fleets will want to just change out tractors and pull any existing trailer.

 

[vvanders]

What about batteries, they are not lasting half a million miles? And again, where is your proof of what you post?

Plenty of Teslas hitting 200-300k miles so far, most of the battery degradation is in the first 50k so I don't see any reason they could go to 500k.

Tesla Model S durability: cars with 25K and 3K miles still humming along happily

 

[flyerdan]

Regen braking would really be a good deal for trucks, no worries about running out of air on long downgrades and the air brakes would last forever as they would only be used on <5 mph stops and parking. And having trailer drive would really cut into Jamie Davis and Al Quiring's business when they could walk right up the smasher and not spin out going up the Coq.

 

[Redneck in training]

--If that's true-- it would be a very sensible change for any operator, and put a lot of $$$,$$$ back in their pockets.

So ---- if that's true --- it would be VERY compelling for a truck mfr.
And for an operator.
And for that matter, for a country who whats to keep on top (the USA?) of the truck market.

But that would spell significant losses to the "petroleum investment sector" who would then need to do a few things to fight it.

Reduce the price of fuel to reduce the economy of electric vehicles. But that "costs" profit.

Pour massive $$$ into keeping the public from supporting such a thing, (or supporting such government incentives). How do you think the petroleum industry would fight off such a formidable rival as electricity? Fund a network that will publish fake TV news? Paying lots of fake news websites. Maybe hire Public relations firms who use forum trolls to spread the confusion? Buy politicians?

Sounds like a daunting task, but really all it takes is money and a calculation of "return on investment" and it makes a lot of sense.

There is also political cost of suporting unfriendly countries only because they have oil.

 

[Redneck in training]

Defending shipping routes is not a subsidy. It's the cost of living in this world as it is.

As to the rest of them, let's just eliminate them all. Every single tax break, every single direct or indirect subsidy, to anybody and everybody. No picking favorites, no shaping" the economy. That's not a legitimate function of governments, and never was.

Then we don't have to argue about it and we can really find out which technologies/products/services offer genuine value, which means we can stop paying for those that don't, but have the right connections.

Once we stop all of that, the free market value of a politician drops like a rock, which, oddly enough, is actually a good thing.

That is utopia. Have you ever been in a country with powerless government? They are horible places to live.

 

[Redneck in training]

Proof?

UDSA burns about 143 billion gal of gas and about 30 billion of diesel per year. 18.5 billion divided by 173 billion equal 11c/gal. That is the best case. 52 billion divided by 173 billion equals about 30c/gal. That is the worst case. In any case it worse than my previous estimate.
How much gasoline does the United States consume? - FAQ - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

 

[PILOON]

What might well work for local delivery electric vehicles is the concept used for electric fork lifts.
Rather that charge the battery on the forklift they change the battery at each shift.

A local delivery vehicle could swap battery each time he picks up a new load, naturally that would call for a specific purpose designed vehicle.
Not impossible. Slide in a freshly charged battery at same time the truck/van is loaded up.

Same might be viable for electric taxis, swap battery when back at the taxi stand, after all most taxi rides are rather short runs and a taxi generally parks at his stand against roaming in search of a fare.

Would be just like a battery powered drill, install a fresh battery every so often.
Battery meter would warn the driver as to how much time or mileage he has to the next battery swap and he'd soon learn to plan his routes accordingly.