Tesla semi

[Gale Hawkins]

While I can not speak to the long term potential for Tesla semi or other vehicles I do think they are helping drive what will be coming in the future vehicle wise where they remain a part of the solution or not. Self driving vehicles will become the future I expect over the next 20 years. I am currently testing the $59 Lane Departure and Frontal Crash warning system from AONE out of Korea that uses your Android Phone for the brain and camera. There are no car wiring cutting/splicing required because it just works off of the computer port under the steering wheel. Self driving/assisted driving tractors and combines have been around for a while.

A lot of newer technology will become mainstream by 2025 I expect. The EV will be part of these changes. Our EZGO golf cart that I use more like an ATV breaking system puts a bit of energy back into the batteries when one removes foot from the GO pedal. Gas and Diesel will be around for many years in many applications especially on the farm.

 

[daugen]

Pretty immature thinking there vv. If you drop a match in someone's gas tank it will probably be as much your problem as theirs.


TBS

I think we've all watched too many movies. In real life I don't think that many cars or trucks are blowing up unless they are in a huge accident or overturn.
Of course if I'm in a car right next to that overturning flaming wreck, I would sure like to not perish due to the nearest vehicle's problem. Much less be in the back seat of the one that is having the problem. I stopped being a fireman just as EV was coming in. Today, particularly in California, the road is full of powerful batteries, hydrogen cells, and who knows what else, and we are driving right along next to them. Of course the road is also full of LP tankers (huge bomb on wheels), lethal chemicals, radioactive containers being shipped, so it's not like the road isn't a pretty hazardous place already.

So far, I haven't heard of anyone getting hurt in an EV where they wouldn't have gotten hurt in a conventional car accident, meaning the batteries did not cause the injury. Is there data on this? Must be. Are EV safer? Since most of them are small cars, hard to imagine they are. Though they are hardly drift machines.
But a plug in S class MB? Now there's a ride...
To go with your plug in Volvo EnergyStar cabover. With the optional quad retractable power cords.

 

[vvanders]

Yeah, I think there's been ~5 fires with Tesla? Each time everyone walked away fine since it's a "slow" process due to sub-packs being isolated. I think inside evs did a thing on it a while back.

No kidding on the LP tanker. We had one flip in Seattle ~8 months back? Shut down I-5 and I-90 for 5 hours. Completely wrecked traffic across the whole Puget Sound. Usually takes me ~3 hours to get back, took me 9 hours that day.

 

[two_bit_score]

I think we've all watched too many movies. ... ... ... .... Today, particularly in California, the road is full of powerful batteries, hydrogen cells, and who knows what else, and we are driving right along next to them. Of course the road is also full of LP tankers (huge bomb on wheels), lethal chemicals, radioactive containers being shipped, so it's not like the road isn't a pretty hazardous place already.

daugen, I knew you were a Second Amendment supporter! Form your statement above I can tell you would also agree that 'guns don't kill, people kill'. But, we can discuss that later. You probably need to lecture vv on throwing matches down people's gas tanks, even in jest.


TBS

 

[vvanders]

Why would he need to lecture me? Its not like I don't read the thread .

Anyway it was a rhetorical point, there's a lot of fear thrown about around li-ion when gasoline is a heck of a lot more dangerous. Only someone unhinged (and with no respect for their own safety, as you pointed out) would do it.

 

[Egon]

How's this fit into the destiny of electric vehicles?

[video]https://websiteoak.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/is-it-the-end-of-the-road-for-traditional-vehicles-here-are-the-facts/87493[/video]

 

[Egon]

Yeah, Porsche designed a nice engine.

So did a lot of other companies. There are lots of nice well balanced engines out there.

Seems you quoted facts on a Porsche Engine some time ago did you not. Are we still awaiting verification?

 

[Egon]

I am the white haired crowd, I rode Honda Magnas, Suzuki GSX 1100, and one Yamaha 1100, along with 7-8 smaller bikes, reliable, smooth and fast although all but the Magnas did vibrate my hands. Today, if I rode, which I haven稚 in about 18 years, I壇 just want big cool bike.

The definition of Cool & trying to go back in time may be different. If long scruffy beards & a little white hair teased into a ponytail with simulated adornments on oversized black leather are cool go for it. Don't forget the little metal skull cap.

 

[daugen]

daugen, I knew you were a Second Amendment supporter! Form your statement above I can tell you would also agree that 'guns don't kill, people kill'. But, we can discuss that later. You probably need to lecture vv on throwing matches down people's gas tanks, even in jest.


TBS

wow, I tried to connect the dots TBS but couldn't. Even though we both were up late last night...
This is a transportation thread, not politics so I'm not going to respond or we will all get sidetracked.
I spent most of my professional career in insurance, seeing the results of every one's misfortune and for sure their
car fires. So I tend to see a lot of risk around me, trained to recognize it, evaluate it, and hopefully drive around it...

My posts tend to be long because I can type pretty quickly, so yeah some could see that as a lecture...sorry.

I must admit I am thoroughly enjoying this thread now that I did something I have never done since I joined here. I put a member on ignore, and now I don't have to get upset by the snarky and nasty comments. Delightful, it really works.

Gasoline gets nowhere near the respect it needs as a flammable liquid. One of our members just lost his small barn and all his equipment to a leaking gas line on a mower. We all know you can get diesel burning but you really have to work at. Gasoline, for sure it loves to burn.
So relatively, EV ought to be pretty safe. And safety of course is just one parameter but certainly an important one.

 

[houstonscott]

I did post a link to the battery failure issues in accidents. And in what accident would one drop a match in the fuel tank? We are not in the age of exploding Pintos. And I didn’t say they were worse than gas vehicles, I can’t prove that so I won’t claim that, I try to keep my claims within proven reality. I am saying that battery units are not the safest things in a wreck, otherwise emergency personnel wouldn’t have special procedures for EVs. And why must it be worse than a gas vehicle to be a problem? Makes no sense.

EV accidents become superfund sites for pollution clean up. People are often burned chemically, and electrocuted first responder personnel is common.

 

[houstonscott]

So did a lot of other companies. There are lots of nice well balanced engines out there. Seems you quoted facts on a Porsche Engine some time ago did you not. Are we still awaiting verification?

HD motors were designed by Porsche.

 

[Egon]

HD motors were designed by Porsche.

And Harley had no input??

 

[toppop52]

Pretty immature thinking there vv. If you drop a match in someone's gas tank it will probably be as much your problem as theirs.


TBS

:laughing: Good point!

 

[toppop52]

The definition of Cool & trying to go back in time may be different. If long scruffy beards & a little white hair teased into a ponytail with simulated adornments on oversized black leather are cool go for it. Don't forget the little metal skull cap.

Do you know the difference between bike and rider? Your post indicates you might have them blurred, I壇 ride a V-Rod or similar, not many of their riders fit your description, neither do I. I do know cool, very well, not sure you do.

 

[toppop52]

wow, I tried to connect the dots TBS but couldn't. Even though we both were up late last night...
This is a transportation thread, not politics so I'm not going to respond or we will all get sidetracked.
I spent most of my professional career in insurance, seeing the results of every one's misfortune and for sure their
car fires. So I tend to see a lot of risk around me, trained to recognize it, evaluate it, and hopefully drive around it...

My posts tend to be long because I can type pretty quickly, so yeah some could see that as a lecture...sorry.

I must admit I am thoroughly enjoying this thread now that I did something I have never done since I joined here. I put a member on ignore, and now I don't have to get upset by the snarky and nasty comments. Delightful, it really works.

Gasoline gets nowhere near the respect it needs as a flammable liquid. One of our members just lost his small barn and all his equipment to a leaking gas line on a mower. We all know you can get diesel burning but you really have to work at. Gasoline, for sure it loves to burn.
So relatively, EV ought to be pretty safe. And safety of course is just one parameter but certainly an important one.

Yep, a gas fire from my utility tractor did all you describe, but my best friend had his car dealership near completely destroyed by a battery fire in 2013, batteries aren稚 all that safe either.

 

[aczlan]

EV accidents become superfund sites for pollution clean up. People are often burned chemically, and electrocuted first responder personnel is common.

Can you cite some sources for this statment? The testing done by the DOE/NFPA in 2014 would appear to show otherwise:

Appropriate PPE to be used for responding to fires involving EDV batteries:
a. Is current PPE appropriate with regard to respiratory and dermal exposure to vent gases and combustion products?
All tests were conducted using NFPA compliant turnout gear, helmet, boots, hoods, structural firefighting gloves, and full SCBA. No adverse conditions related to gear were observed by any of the firefighters who suppressed the fires. In addition, water and gas samples collected during testing did not include any compounds or gases that differed significantly from what is typically found in a conventional ICE vehicle fire. No projectiles or other explosion anomalies were observed. In two cases, due to an increase in the total volume of water to control the fire, the associated time was greater than what was available from a single SCBA cylinder. First responders should be prepared to either rotate suppression staff or have provisions to quickly change cylinders.

b. Is current PPE appropriate with regard to potential electric shock hazards?
An analysis of current and voltage measurements recorded at the discharge of the nozzle indicated no significant current or voltage readings in any of the tests. Based on the test data, full NFPA compliant PPE is appropriate during noninvasive suppression operations. However, tests were conducted with batteries placed in a VFT prop. Full-scale tests involving complete vehicle electrical distribution systems were not conducted and evaluated, nor were offensive firefighter tactics involving cutting, piercing, manipulating the vehicle for extraction purposes or to gain better access for suppression purposes.

c.What is the size of the hazard zone where full PPE, including respiratory protection, must be worn?
Based on the data collected, the hazard zone where full PPE, including respiratory protection must be worn was comparable to that of traditional ICE vehicle fires. The fire observed for tests that included the EDV battery as well as interior finishes/upholstery was more intense than the fire observed in the battery alone. Heat flux and temperature measurements recorded around the VFT indicate no data to support changing the 50-foot perimeter standard provided in the NHTSA Interim Guidance for Electric and Hybrid-Electric Vehicles Equipped with High Voltage Batteries

Aaron Z

 

[daugen]

Yep, a gas fire from my utility tractor did all you describe, but my best friend had his car dealership near completely destroyed by a battery fire in 2013, batteries aren稚 all that safe either.

was that because a battery was on a charger? Am curious how it got so far out of hand.

I once had a working boat engine room fire where the battery box for one bank of 4 huge 8 volt batteries had shorted against something in a hidden area.
Charred wires, charred wooden battery box, that sure got re-engineered when done. Someone had moved the main cable probably when changing batteries long before I had
the boat, so yeah, electricity can light up your life in all kinds of ways.

 

[cqaigy2]

While I can not speak to the long term potential for Tesla semi or other vehicles I do think they are helping drive what will be coming in the future vehicle wise where they remain a part of the solution or not. Self driving vehicles will become the future I expect over the next 20 years. I am currently testing the $59 Lane Departure and Frontal Crash warning system from AONE out of Korea that uses your Android Phone for the brain and camera. There are no car wiring cutting/splicing required because it just works off of the computer port under the steering wheel. Self driving/assisted driving tractors and combines have been around for a while.

A lot of newer technology will become mainstream by 2025 I expect. The EV will be part of these changes. Our EZGO golf cart that I use more like an ATV breaking system puts a bit of energy back into the batteries when one removes foot from the GO pedal. Gas and Diesel will be around for many years in many applications especially on the farm.

I was just having a discussion about the self driving cars with my wife. She's not so sure they will be safer, but i point out that we currently have "driver-less" cars on the road today so at least with self-driving car, there would be something paying attention.

 

[toppop52]

was that because a battery was on a charger? Am curious how it got so far out of hand.

I once had a working boat engine room fire where the battery box for one bank of 4 huge 8 volt batteries had shorted against something in a hidden area.
Charred wires, charred wooden battery box, that sure got re-engineered when done. Someone had moved the main cable probably when changing batteries long before I had
the boat, so yeah, electricity can light up your life in all kinds of ways.

Internal battery failure was the final word, no charger involved.

 

[toppop52]

Can you cite some sources for this statment? The testing done by the DOE/NFPA in 2014 would appear to show otherwise:


Aaron Z

Not doing the tests in the original vehicle or doing extraction maneuvers seriously degrades the test results.