Tesla semi

[Redneck in training]

Yep, a gas fire from my utility tractor did all you describe, but my best friend had his car dealership near completely destroyed by a battery fire in 2013, batteries aren稚 all that safe either.

I am guessing the dealership burned down because of all the gasoline in cars. It might started as battery short but without gasoline it would be no event.

 

[aczlan]

Not doing the tests in the original vehicle or doing extraction maneuvers seriously degrades the test results.

In what way? You claimed the following:
1. EV accidents become superfund sites for pollution clean up - Not mentioned at all in the study as an issue.
2. People are often burned chemically - Their sampling found that the off gassing from the burning batteries wasn't any more dangerous than the burning interior in a ICE vehicle
3. Electrocuted first responder personnel is common - Were they properly trained on where to cut (and where not to cut)? Can you show some incidents? The test I linked to said that they didn't see any voltage coming back on the stream of water and as long as they don't cut through the wires (which are placed where you don't normally need to cut a car to extract people), the risk of electrocution is low.
Please provide proof to back up your claims.

Aaron Z

 

[sd455dan]

In what way? You claimed the following:
1. EV accidents become superfund sites for pollution clean up - Not mentioned at all in the study as an issue.
2. People are often burned chemically - Their sampling found that the off gassing from the burning batteries wasn't any more dangerous than the burning interior in a ICE vehicle
3. Electrocuted first responder personnel is common - Were they properly trained on where to cut (and where not to cut)? Can you show some incidents? The test I linked to said that they didn't see any voltage coming back on the stream of water and as long as they don't cut through the wires (which are placed where you don't normally need to cut a car to extract people), the risk of electrocution is low.
Please provide proof to back up your claims.

Aaron Z

"EV accidents become superfund sites for pollution clean up"

Hard to believe that statement...
considering this description from EPA's own site:

Since 1980, EPA's Superfund program has helped protect human health and the environment by managing the cleanup of the nation's worst hazardous waste sites and responding to local and nationally significant environmental emergencies

Who knew A single Tesla, Volt or Leaf battery failure in an accident could cause a Nationally significant environmental Emergency...

 

[California]

Comeon guys let's not get this thread closed too.

 

[kloudbuster]

I think we've all watched too many movies. In real life I don't think that many cars or trucks are blowing up unless they are in a huge accident or overturn.
Of course if I'm in a car right next to that overturning flaming wreck, I would sure like to not perish due to the nearest vehicle's problem. Much less be in the back seat of the one that is having the problem. I stopped being a fireman just as EV was coming in. Today, particularly in California, the road is full of powerful batteries, hydrogen cells, and who knows what else, and we are driving right along next to them. Of course the road is also full of LP tankers (huge bomb on wheels), lethal chemicals, radioactive containers being shipped, so it's not like the road isn't a pretty hazardous place already.

So far, I haven't heard of anyone getting hurt in an EV where they wouldn't have gotten hurt in a conventional car accident, meaning the batteries did not cause the injury. Is there data on this? Must be. Are EV safer? Since most of them are small cars, hard to imagine they are. Though they are hardly drift machines.
But a plug in S class MB? Now there's a ride...
To go with your plug in Volvo EnergyStar cabover. With the optional quad retractable power cords.

Isn't the MB a hybrid? Has a four cylinder engine

 

[California]

he's getting beat up so bad by HS and the rest.

Why would you view this thread as individual posters win/lose????

For me, I see new technology and I'm curious. Some posts add to our understanding. That's what I would rather read. Not everything is a HS football game.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Seems some things never change:/ such a wealth of knowledge on here! Sure wish folks could disagree civilly!

Great thread even with the squabbling, lotsa interesting info for a bush rat like me to try to digest.

Back to electric semis, EVs are great and definitely have their place and will be able to do a major portion of transportation in the near future (I believe) if given the chance.
Not sure we are very close with the semis tho because of the hp needed, I don't think batteries will be up to it for a long time yet.

The diesel,electric trains, ships, and even trickling down to fishing boats are so efficient because they cut down on huge moving parts, putting the power right next to the wheels, props whatever. They still need that diesel motor providing the enormous amount of power.

With the trucks I think the best solution now would be a combo of technologies. Putting the electric motors right on the drive wheel saves a ton of energy right there and then you add in regenerative braking. But to capture that energy you need the batteries. So you use a smaller diesel (someday down the road a fuel cell) engine powering a generator keeping your batteries up(and yes you can stick solar panels all over the roof to help). Now your batteries are powering your semi down the road, faster discharge going up hill, faster speeds, etc at which times you would be discharging faster than the generator is charging but that all changes going down hill, stopped at a light(generator would have an eco throttle for that once the battery got topped) I think that is all possible now and would drastically cut down on hydrocarbons spewing out.

Who knows what the future holds, newer better batteries might just be able to power the whole kit n kabodle especially if that truck was floating on air

 

[newbury]

Why would you view this thread as individual posters win/lose????

Because he lives in Unfriendly Politics and that's how folks think in there. It's all snarky me against them in there.
I really wish they would close Unfriendly Politics and get these unpleasant folks to go elsewhere.
They are simply spoilers.
Please check the triangle with the exclamation point at the bottom left of the post to report it. If more of you do what I'm doing,
maybe we can clean the noise out of these discussions and focus on nice conversation.

I arrived at this thread late but have a sincere interest in electric power for big trucks.

Drew, one of the problems it seems with posters who live in FP is that they gang together and get in the habit of attacking opinions other than their own like a mass of maggots on a fresh piece of meat.
Some of them might be, to put it politely, "off their meds".
Perhaps it is time again to start flagging posters when they write like they are in a drunken Friendly Politics argument rather than a civil discussion of new technology. After all a bunch got suspended back in about 2012. Most went off shouting they would never be back, but sadly many of them did return.

I noticed in this thread comparison of a battery causing an entire car dealership to burn down to indicate how dangerous electric vehicles are. How about how dangerous cows are ? Remember the Chicago fire of 1871?

 

[daugen]

How about how dangerous cows are ?

just think of all that methane, pretty explosive I hear...
I think Bessie gets a pass here.

I'm happy to hear all points of view, it's the only way you learn.
However some folks have such a clear agenda, and fueled by the attack dog
mannerisms enjoyed in FP, wander out of there when they get bored. I now have two on ignore. And I'm happy if they ignore
me too. But they won't, because then there is no one to attack.

Sooner or later our tractors will be powered by something other than diesel engines. Maybe it will take a hundred years, but alternative power
is coming. Combustion engines will become less common. At some point hundreds of years from now, if pollution is still a problem
they might even ban combustion engines altogether if there really is a working alternative. Mazda is introducing a very unusual new engine this year, there really is new tech coming plus all the hybridization of cars. Isn't there even an F1 racing class just for
electric vehicles?

So how does one "hop up" an electrical engine? I'm sure you first start with hacking some control software so your new Volvo EnergyStar
puts out more juice, but what do you do with the motors themselves. Not like you can slap a turbo on them...but old wisdom was to remove windings, run hotter, flow more amps. And likely burn out sooner. We need Gale Banks to make a kit for electric motors.
Does anyone here have personal experience with electric high performance?

 

[Egon]

Do you know the difference between bike and rider? Your post indicates you might have them blurred, I壇 ride a V-Rod or similar, not many of their riders fit your description, neither do I. I do know cool, very well, not sure you do.

Just observations made from the passing summer groups of riders.

Cool; you're right, I don't know what it is. Comfort & enjoyment does come into my realm of feeling good though.

Got some sixty year old scars that may mean I went through a cool stage though.

 

[/pine]

...So how does one "hop up" an electrical engine? I'm sure you first start with hacking some control software...

Yes that's exactly right...
It's interesting to note that one of the biggest manufacturers of electric vehicles (TEXTRON) does not seem to me interested in making passenger and cargo highway vehicles...

Ez-Go (division of Textron) makes a state of the art cart (RXV) that has a controller that is highly programmable...a few remarkable things about the RXV are interesting...the cart runs on a 3 phase AC motor (48 volts)...Also the only brakes on the cart are built into the motor (regen braking)...there are no mechanical brakes on the wheels etc. at all...

On a related note...For typical electric carts (not the RXV)...there are third party controllers available that are also highly programmable...some of these third party controllers have built in interfaces and a USB port so they can be programmed with any laptop, smartphone etc...

 

[Gale Hawkins]

We have an 2007 EZGO PDS 36v DC cart with the regen braking and 2 MPH steep hill speed limited that we use more like an ATV around the place. Actually i bought it to teach the kids the rules of the road and how to drive when they were about 12. The smart controller safety features were a plus because of our hills. The controller is somewhat programmable with "chips" that are nothing more than jumper wires.

I had looked at some gas carts that I preferred but the safety features of the PDS cart when I put the kids first in my mind plus it was an easier sell to the wife.

The EV self driving vehicles should help we old guys meet up to drink coffee even after we do not remember our way home.

 

[daugen]

...So how does one "hop up" an electrical engine? I'm sure you first start with hacking some control software...

Yes that's exactly right...

I feel like the little kid asking why, why why....so what does that actually do?
It's not like an electric motor has timing issues, so other than number of seconds allowed at peak power for heat dissipation, like turbo overboost or maybe even clocking a computer chip,
what else would they control? And how. To get more power, you need to flow more current, correct? So the motor first has to be capable of flowing more current than its normal spec, and not sure of all the parameters there. Motor efficiency I think is one parameter, are some motors capable of creating more torque for the same power consumed?

 

[4570Man]

How do the self driving cars get to where they're going. GPS seems like the obvious answer. But that's leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[daugen]

How do the self driving cars get to where they're going. GPS seems like the obvious answer. But that's leaves a lot to be desired.

these are all rolling computers with serious geographical databases in them, I believe accurate down to a few feet. Yes, gps but the mapping software has to be
super accurate too. Several competing companies gathering all this street data now. Makes the stuff in our Garmins really antiquated. We have all been given turn here turn here
demands by nav systems when you know darn well you want to keep going straight. It might be a quarter mile shorter the other way but there's more to life and driving safety than just mileage for sure. And all this software is getting guinea pigged out there now.

Interesting that they are worrying about the battery drain from the computers as well as the propulsion. Probably less of an issue with a big semi but
perhaps some percentage points of efficiency in a very light car. And the age old problem of how do you get rid of the heat as performance increases.
Will be interesting to find out if Tesla is using
proprietary electric motors or the automotive equivalent of a high end Baldor.
Am thinking of repair...just how many different motors with incompatibilities will be made and how
deal stopping are the incompatibilities. Like voltage or ac/dc.

Here's how much electric power autonomous cars are using, and taking away from EV powertrains

 

[CincyFlyer]

...So how does one "hop up" an electrical engine? I'm sure you first start with hacking some control software...

Yes that's exactly right...

I feel like the little kid asking why, why why....so what does that actually do?
It's not like an electric motor has timing issues, so other than number of seconds allowed at peak power for heat dissipation, like turbo overboost or maybe even clocking a computer chip,
what else would they control? And how. To get more power, you need to flow more current, correct? So the motor first has to be capable of flowing more current than its normal spec, and not sure of all the parameters there. Motor efficiency I think is one parameter, are some motors capable of creating more torque for the same power consumed?

All manufacturers are very conservative with their settings; you can get over 1K HP out of a Tesla D model (for a short period of time!) with enough tomfoolery. And a few seconds of super-go-power is all that you can really use on the road.

 

[houstonscott]

...So how does one "hop up" an electrical engine? I'm sure you first start with hacking some control software... Yes that's exactly right... I feel like the little kid asking why, why why....so what does that actually do? It's not like an electric motor has timing issues, so other than number of seconds allowed at peak power for heat dissipation, like turbo overboost or maybe even clocking a computer chip, what else would they control? And how. To get more power, you need to flow more current, correct? So the motor first has to be capable of flowing more current than its normal spec, and not sure of all the parameters there. Motor efficiency I think is one parameter, are some motors capable of creating more torque for the same power consumed?

Sounds like great project with your 7th grade electronic class and go cart club.

 

[Redneck in training]

Electrical cars have three phase AC motors with variable frequency drives. This technology is proven in industrial environment for many years now. From small units costing few hundred to many MW size costing millions. Industrial units have 100% duty cycle even at elevated temperatures while in cars, due to limited space and mass constrains the duty cycle is way less. Top model Tesla can deliver 800HP for several minutes then the thermal protection kicks in. Tesla motor is liquid cooled.
Speaking about electric semi. I estimated if semi does 1000 000 miles at 6 mpg it will use 1000000/6x2.5=416000 dollars in fuel. That is about 4 times more than cost of average semi. Since electric power is way cheaper than diesel, electric semi makes sense despite its range limitations. I can see battery swapping being developed in the future.

 

[daugen]

600 hp and 738 lb-ft of torque
is what Volvo just announced for its Polestar hybrid.

Now as much as we all want more power, at some point, isn't this just bragging rights like Tesla sought?
I have a car and a truck that get to sixty in 7 seconds. I have another car that gets to sixty in five seconds.
I frankly can't imagine why anyone would need more acceleration than that in today's world, wanting it of course is entirely different.
Same with trucks. Who expects a semi to keep up with traffic at a light? What driver wants to subject his load to those kind of g forces anyway.
I'd think truck drivers would be a lot more concerned about maintaining speed up a long hill. And how many miles they can go, and what the cost per mile is.

 

[daugen]

Electrical cars have three phase AC motors with variable frequency drives.

thanks, didn't know this was universal. So this is the same concept as the big mining excavators ?