Tesla semi

[mapper]

Washington and Oregon have pilot projects going on road taxes by miles driven. As usual there is a lot of resistance to the idea, no one likes any additional taxes and there is little trust of proposed tax neutral proposals.
Sad reality is that per gallon fuel taxes are always going to fall short of needs due to inflation and ever more efficient vehicles. Human nature seems to be that we all would like a free lunch, reality is there is no such thing and kicking the can down the road always seems to cost far more than manning up and doing what needs to be done.

 

[cqaigy2]

Each vehicle may end up having a transceiver or some such which records the roads travelled, miles travelled etc. And you get the bill by mail.

Alot of shipping companies already have this in their distribution vehicles, so doesn't seem too much of a lift to report it to your DOT or what ever agency would be responsible for the tax bill.

 

[houstonscott]

Washington and Oregon have pilot projects going on road taxes by miles driven. As usual there is a lot of resistance to the idea, no one likes any additional taxes and there is little trust of proposed tax neutral proposals. Sad reality is that per gallon fuel taxes are always going to fall short of needs due to inflation and ever more efficient vehicles. Human nature seems to be that we all would like a free lunch, reality is there is no such thing and kicking the can down the road always seems to cost far more than manning up and doing what needs to be done.

Fuel taxes are perfect, more you drive more you use road more you pay. Plenty of money, problem is road taxes are taken from roads to fund other stuff, from bike trails to busses, ferry's, and light rail.

 

[two_bit_score]

I'll add another factor to consider.
TAXATION
Roads are generally paid for and maintained via taxation income and that is generally levied at the gas pump.
Will all road maintenance taxation be applied at large? at the charging stations? and then if plugged in at home you then avoid road taxes.

Now then diesel fuel is used for trucking because there is more BTU's of energy than gasoline per gallon (thing weight and volume)
Batteries are HEAVY (and bulky) so more HP is needed to haul the same loads.

A comparison is aircraft. They never simply fill up but carefully calculate how much fuel needed to go from A to B.
So much true that the FAA had to regulate to assure there was a suitable reserve to get to the next closest airport.
It cost fuel to haul fuel! and that's money. (profit)

Maybe the answer will become, one battery to go from A-B and 2 batteries to go from A-C. etc.

I always think of fork lift trucks and the massive batteries just to maintain a shift.\
In some cases users have up to 3 batteries per forklift just to cover shifts.

The libs just want to talk about EV being great but never about the costs like this or the excessive government subsidies for EV.

 

[sd455dan]

not sure if this bill being passed has been mentioned, it affects zero emission heavy duty truck purchases in California.

California moving toward to 0 emission heavy trucks... AB739 10/10 2017

California Governor Jerry Brown signed Assembly Bill (AB) 739, authored by Assembly member Ed Chau (D-Monterey Park), which requires at least 15% of vehicles, with a gross vehicle weight of over 19,000 pounds that are newly purchased by state agencies, to be Zero-Emission Vehicles (ZEV) beginning in 2025,
and at least 30% of those vehicles to be ZEV beginning in 2030.
by signing AB 739 into law, which will ensure that state agencies are procuring zero-emission vehicles for our larger truck and bus fleets.”

 

[sd455dan]

The libs just want to talk about EV being great but never about the costs like this or the excessive government subsidies for EV.

from what I can find , the oil industry benefits from subsidies to the tune of about 4700000000 dollars every year, for some reason not near the call to cut those subsidies though.
Our state (Idaho) Has no tax breaks of any kind for EV's and also charges $140 every year in addition to the local road tax Already included in the yearly registration. I still want a hybrid/ EV and plan to purchase one by 2019
Another consideration is that some of us have multiple vehicles and since can drive only 1 at a time, so just owning 1 EV isn't killing the Feds or state on lost gas taxes. the big block powered vehicles take care of the gas taxes just fine. jmo

 

[4570Man]

Our state (Idaho) Has no tax breaks of any kind for EV's and also charges $140 every year in addition to the local road tax Already included in the yearly registration.
Yeah I still want a hybrid/ EV and plan to purchase one by 2019
Another consideration is that some of us have multiple vehicles and can only drive 1 at a time, so just owning 1 EV isn't killing the Feds or state on lost gas taxes. the big block powered vehicles take care of the gas taxes just fine. jmo

Well it's currently a non issue, but what about 10 years from now? I wouldn't loose much sleep over it. The government will find some way to get their money.

 

[Snobdds]

Alot of shipping companies already have this in their distribution vehicles, so doesn't seem too much of a lift to report it to your DOT or what ever agency would be responsible for the tax bill.

So how do you propose of paying for road taxes in one state, but driving in another, if gas tax is reduced to the point of needing another system. I know lots of people that commute to Colorado, but live in Wyoming. They spend 15 miles in Wyoming, then 60 in Colorado. Colorado is getting the shaft on Taxes...

The only way I see it working is like they do with toll roads. They just set up cameras and if you past a check point you pay.

 

[PILOON]

Taxes are also the reason there is dye in diesel, do you can稚 cheat and run #2 heating oil.

So next we will have colored electricity?

Back a while propane powered cars was the thing and actually they worked fairly well and range was not an issue.*
Gov'ts did find ways to tax mainly because it required a special filling station until along came special compressors that could pump natural gas into your vehicle
I seem to recall the loss of storage was probably the main complaint in as those propane vehicles were mainly conversions of regular production units.
*Perhaps had they designed the vehicles around the tanks so as to retain all the other characteristics they might have been the solution.

Anybody ever figure out the costs per mile of producing that electric energy for a vehicle vs fossil fuel per mile?
Might be surprising! (and it would vary from state to state with hydro rich areas like Quebec being a winner.)

When it comes to pollution I venture to say the coal based Hydro Electric power stations (that will provide electric vehicle energy) will pollute a heck of a lot more that the fuel based cars that they replace, especially with current technology.

Catalytic converters, computer driven engines tier 4 technology etc IMHO has made the whole electric vehicle RIO quite questionable.

I like to say that I will buy an electric car the day all LEO agencies and gov't vehicles are electric powered!
Like POTUS vehicle and all the POTUS escorts!

Can just picture the secret service escorting POTUS in electric Hummers!

 

[two_bit_score]

from what I can find , the oil industry benefits from subsidies to the tune of about 4700000000 dollars every year, for some reason not near the call to cut those subsidies though.
Our state (Idaho) Has no tax breaks of any kind for EV's and also charges $140 every year in addition to the local road tax Already included in the yearly registration. I still want a hybrid/ EV and plan to purchase one by 2019
Another consideration is that some of us have multiple vehicles and since can drive only 1 at a time, so just owning 1 EV isn't killing the Feds or state on lost gas taxes. the big block powered vehicles take care of the gas taxes just fine. jmo

No you're wrong. It's more. But the EV subsidy is also more than just what they get per vehicle. The cost of E is also heavily subsidized by government and more so than gasoline/diesel.

I'm in favor cutting subsidies across the board. Starting with EV subsidies.



TBS

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

I just want them to stand on their own without artificial price fixing at taxpayer expense, and I want people to admit their many shortcomings, internal combustion, fusion, fusion, wind, all have their problems and safety concerns, so to do EVç—´. Once we admit and recognize that, the sooner we advance.

Hear! Hear!

 

[vvanders]

The libs just want to talk about EV being great but never about the costs like this or the excessive government subsidies for EV.

We already covered this 5 pages back. We pay a $150 EV tax at re-registration in WA that covers the same funding as gas tax. I ran the numbers and it was within $10 of what I used to pay in terms of the gas tax.

It's not like they can't enact new taxes to cover any shortage. I'm happy to pay my fair share to keep up our infrastructure. Heck, if I actually had any control over my tax money I'd shift it largely towards infrastructure as things like that have all sorts of awesome economic knock-on effects.

Also this isn't a political thread, no need to drop to name calling. Even moreso when you aren't on the mark.

 

[two_bit_score]

We already covered this 5 pages back. We pay a $150 EV tax at re-registration in WA that covers the same funding as gas tax. I ran the numbers and it was within $10 of what I used to pay in terms of the gas tax.

It's not like they can't enact new taxes to cover any shortage. I'm happy to pay my fair share to keep up our infrastructure. Heck, if I actually had any control over my tax money I'd shift it largely towards infrastructure as things like that have all sorts of awesome economic knock-on effects.

Also this isn't a political thread, no need to drop to name calling. Even moreso when you aren't on the mark.

Like every Tesla fan you are seeing everything about Tesla and EV generally through a very myopic lens. You refuse to admit their shortcomings and magnify the shortcomings of competitive fuels.

You also should drop the preconceived notions. I have been a proponent of CNG as a motor fuel. Still am. But I have to admit that it's not very likely that it will replace gasoline or diesel as a motor vehicle fuel. The most likely use of Natural Gas is to run power plants to produce electricty to build batteries and supply the power to charge them.

Until you started acting childish by threatening to throw lit matches down someone's gas tank I was pretty quiet in this thread.

 

[toppop52]

There are no zero emissions vehicles or power generation systems, that is an oxymoron. They all have a carbon footprint, some rather large.

 

[vvanders]

Like every Tesla fan you are seeing everything about Tesla and EV generally through a very myopic lens. You refuse to admit their shortcomings and magnify the shortcomings of competitive fuels.

You also should drop the preconceived notions. I have been a proponent of CNG as a motor fuel. Still am. But I have to admit that it's not very likely that it will replace gasoline or diesel as a motor vehicle fuel. The most likely use of Natural Gas is to run power plants to produce electricty to build batteries and supply the power to charge them.

Until you started acting childish by threatening to throw lit matches down someone's gas tank I was pretty quiet in this thread.

Yikes, you might want to just chill a bit there.

I've never claimed that EVs are the end-all-be-all just that in the scenarios where they work they have some pretty great advantages. For instance I don't see them taking over long-haul trucking, rail car or a whole host of things anytime soon.

The match comment was just noting the different failure modes between li-ion(thermal runaway) and gasoline(explosion). A lot of people like to freak out over battery fires while ignoring that car fires happen hundreds of times every day. I don't know how you got in your head that I'd do anything like that so you should just drop the notion.

Happy to have a civil discussion but if you want to escalate I'm happy to throw you on my ignore list.

 

[houstonscott]

Coal will be replaced with NG. Home heating will go NG everywhere it can. Solar and wind will remain foot notes. Automobiles and trucks will run on gas and diesel. Worlds known oil reverses will continue to grow. Air pollution will continue improve. Concerns for CO2 emissions will dwindle as GW chicken little predictions continue to miss the marks.

 

[two_bit_score]

Looks like the best future for battery powered vehicles is underwater. Batteries will have a big future in submarine technology. But, they still need to run diesel motors about every 3-4 days to recharge.

 

[Redneck in training]

Looks like the best future for battery powered vehicles is underwater. Batteries will have a big future in submarine technology. But, they still need to run diesel motors about every 3-4 days to recharge.

Submarines run on nuclear fuel. They can stay under water until they run out of food.

 

[Redneck in training]

Coal will be replaced with NG. Home heating will go NG everywhere it can. Solar and wind will remain foot notes. Automobiles and trucks will run on gas and diesel. Worlds known oil reverses will continue to grow. Air pollution will continue improve. Concerns for CO2 emissions will dwindle as GW chicken little predictions continue to miss the marks.

Keep dreaming. The opposite is the reality.

 

[Redneck in training]

There are no zero emissions vehicles or power generation systems, that is an oxymoron. They all have a carbon footprint, some rather large.

While your statement is technically correct electric vehicles polute about 5 times less than ICE at the worst case and generate zero operation polution at the best case in example if recharged from water, wind or solar.