Tesla semi

[two_bit_score]

Humm. How do they recharge those batteries on those stealthy Russian subs?

Diesel engines. They are vulnerable when running the engines at surface level to recharge the batteries.

 

[dynasim]

I read the first couple of posts, became utterly disgusted, and had to comment. I refuse to read the rest.

One has to be completely unaware of how things actually work to propose such tripe as a tractor trailer run on batteries. Seriously, this is the thing that finally convinced me that Musk is an utter and complete fraud.

The amount of energy required to move a 40 tons of material at highway speeds for long distances eliminates batteries as the source of energy. For the OP to suggest that truck mounted solar panels, and/or a wind turbine is going to recharge those batteries is looney. I don't use that word lightly. These sorts of people were in charge of our energy policy until 9 months ago. That thought makes me tremble.

Perhaps the next thing we can do is send a person to mars using sling shots wound up by wind turbines.

uggh.

 

[two_bit_score]

Musk will peddle any scheme he can get the government to finance.


Underground high speed trains, trips to the moon, Tesla semi's, on and on....

 

[California]

There are people out there who know more about these things than we armchair theorists.

======quote====source=====

U.S. astronaut Scott Kelly is a veteran of four space flights. He holds the record for total accumulated days in space, as well as for the longest single mission by an American: a full year aboard the International Space Station (ISS). He clearly knows a thing or two about what's possible in the realm of space flight, and he just told the world he doesn't doubt Elon Musk.

"When Elon Musk said he was going to launch his rocket and then land the first stage on a barge, I thought he was crazy" Kelly said on Tuesday. "And then he did it. I'm not going to ever doubt what he says, ever again."

 

[two_bit_score]

:laughing:^^^^^^^^

 

[Redneck in training]

Humm. How do they recharge those batteries on those stealthy Russian subs?

They have stationary bicycles with generators and every man has to pedal for few hours every day. It keeps them in shape and the batteries charged. I think that is what they do. I might be wrong about that.

The whole point of nuclear power is that the sub can stay underwater for very long time so nobody knows where it is. The Russians have submarine port in Sevastopol that is underground so nobody sees the subs going in or out.
I have a relative who used to be a supply officer on a sub. He told me that food supply is only limitation how long the sub can stay submerged away from the port or supply ship.

 

[daugen]

I read the first couple of posts, became utterly disgusted, and had to comment. I refuse to read the rest.

It's too bad you didn't keep reading. New technology requires a lot of brainstorming, that's what this is about.
And some of us enjoy doing that. Clearly you don't.

There is an odor in this thread that is simply unpleasant.
even with ignoring two of the real geniuses in this group, this topic seems to be a magnet for alt right anti everything people.
I have no desire to have a conversation with these folks anymore. Some of you are unpleasant and simply nasty people.
For the first time since I joined TBN, I am unsubscribing from my own thread.
The spoilers have succeeded. The mosh pit has risen to the surface and nastiness prevails.

Unsubscribed.

 

[houstonscott]

I read the first couple of posts, became utterly disgusted, and had to comment. I refuse to read the rest. It's too bad you didn't keep reading. New technology requires a lot of brainstorming, that's what this is about. And some of us enjoy doing that. Clearly you don't. There is an odor in this thread that is simply unpleasant. even with ignoring two of the real geniuses in this group, this topic seems to be a magnet for alt right anti everything people. I have no desire to have a conversation with these folks anymore. Some of you are unpleasant and simply nasty people. For the first time since I joined TBN, I am unsubscribing from my own thread. The spoilers have succeeded. The mosh pit has risen to the surface and nastiness prevails. Unsubscribed.

Electric cars are a hard sell, so is man made GW caused by CO2 emissions from USA alone, the driving reason behind the push to switch to electric, and especially when the flag ship electric car company has never turned a profit and its cars are crappy. So if you want to discuss electric cars, and demand a switch, you better come prepared to defend "why".

 

[lostcreekranch]

There are people out there who know more about these things than we armchair theorists.

======quote====source=====

U.S. astronaut Scott Kelly is a veteran of four space flights. He holds the record for total accumulated days in space, as well as for the longest single mission by an American: a full year aboard the International Space Station (ISS). He clearly knows a thing or two about what's possible in the realm of space flight, and he just told the world he doesn't doubt Elon Musk.

"When Elon Musk said he was going to launch his rocket and then land the first stage on a barge, I thought he was crazy" Kelly said on Tuesday. "And then he did it. I'm not going to ever doubt what he says, ever again."

Scott Kelly has 520 days in space but, Peggy Whitson has 534 days.

Astronaut Peggy Whitson Sets NASA Record For Most Days In Space : The Two-Way : NPR

 

[SPYDERLK]

Average refinery turns out about 19 gal of gasoline and 11 gal of diesel from 42 gal (1 barrel) of crude.
The refinery consume about 7 kWh/gal of fuel to do so.

1 barrel of crude oil is equivalent to 1675.5 kWh of energy.
Refinery produces about 19 gal of gasoline equivalent to 644.6 kWh
Refinery produces about 11 gal of diesel equivalent to 417 kWh
Refinery uses about 7.4 kWh/gal to produce the fuels. Since the 7.4 kWh was generated at about 38% efficiency the actual energy consumption per gallon is 7.4/0.38=19.5
Sum it together:
(644.6+417-(19+11)*19.5)/1675.5=27.9 % efficient
ICE is about 20% at the best day.
Therefore it converts 20*.279=5.6% energy contained in the crude when it reached the refinery.

Average coal burning plant is about 36% efficient, combine cycle plants are pushing 65-70%, Average efficiency of fossil fuel power plant is about 38%. The total efficiency of all power plants combined is somewhat higher but I don't have the number.

The charging cycle of Li-ion batteries is about 99% efficient.
The electronics used to charge the batteries has about 96% efficeincy
The drive motors for cars are about 92% efficent.
To sum it up:
38*0.99*0.96*0.92=33.2% of fuel energy is converted to power.

This assumes the car mechanical losses and energy transportation cost are about the same. The fact is that transportation of electric energy is cheaper but I don't have the numbers.

33.2/5.6=5.92 E cars is about 5.92 time better user of energy.

Even if you use the best scenario of the refinery efficiency and the worst scenario of efficiency of electric power generation the ecar comes 5 times better.
Additionally as the lights are converted to o LED the coal power generation will need the ecars as night load. They will have hard time to stay in business without ecars or utility size energy storage.
Also if ecars are deployed in mass numbers oil might hit 10/barrel. Wouldn't it be nice for you ICE lovers?

As you know KWh implys electricity, but is actually generic energy. In the case of the refinery this would, in high proportion, be strictly heat. One of the beauties of huge scale is the favor toward adoption of efficiency. -- Are you sure that the heat is derived from electricity? ... If not that 38% could be much improved by direct use of some of the crude as heat fuel.

That would lessen the advantage of electric in the Energy/mile comparison youve calculated.​

 

[two_bit_score]

Scott Kelly has 520 days in space but, Peggy Whitson has 534 days.

Astronaut Peggy Whitson Sets NASA Record For Most Days In Space : The Two-Way : NPR

Also the oldest woman: "Whitson was 56 when she left for her third long-term mission aboard the space station last November, making her the oldest U.S. woman in space, as we reported."

 

[toppop52]

While your statement is technically correct electric vehicles polute about 5 times less than ICE at the worst case and generate zero operation polution at the best case in example if recharged from water, wind or solar.

You keep putting those numbers out there, but no proof. With links proving the answer, what percentage are actually today, being charged with pure wind, water or solar. And those that are, what is the carbon history of those generation systems? I mean they all are manufactured from something in a plant somewhere, etc...

 

[two_bit_score]

They have stationary bicycles with generators and every man has to pedal for few hours every day. It keeps them in shape and the batteries charged. I think that is what they do. I might be wrong about that.

The whole point of nuclear power is that the sub can stay underwater for very long time so nobody knows where it is. The Russians have submarine port in Sevastopol that is underground so nobody sees the subs going in or out.
I have a relative who used to be a supply officer on a sub. He told me that food supply is only limitation how long the sub can stay submerged away from the port or supply ship.

I'm sure he can furnish a link to a Pravda articles the comrades will provide.

 

[toppop52]

This is very interesting, a lot of good info. I’m asking questions, not to piss off people, but to get at the facts. Let’s stop being asinine and listen to each other, then ask honest questions, we might be surprised what we find out.

 

[two_bit_score]

This is very interesting, a lot of good info. I’m asking questions, not to piss off people, but to get at the facts. Let’s stop being asinine and listen to each other, then ask honest questions, we might be surprised what we find out.

Good luck with that! :laughing:

 

[TheGoose]

There is no doubt that Elon Musk has improved the state of EV's since he entered the picture. In the 1990's and 2000's EV's were essentially dead. He has revived that space, and he didn't ask the government for incentives. He simply took advantage for whatever was in place. Also, many of you forget that the Teslas are not only sold here but all over the world, including china. It's not just incentives from our Gov't but many gov'ts worldwide.

You can think whatever of Musk and Tesla but you can't fight the future. Someday, maybe not too far away, you'll be showing your grandkids your old car and they'll exclaim "Grampa, that runs on gasoline?!!". Battery capacity and technology are improving every year but I don't think we can squeeze anything else out of gasoline or diesel.

 

[sd455dan]

There is no doubt that Elon Musk has improved the state of EV's since he entered the picture. In the 1990's and 2000's EV's were essentially dead. He has revived that space, and he didn't ask the government for incentives. He simply took advantage for whatever was in place. Also, many of you forget that the Teslas are not only sold here but all over the world, including china. It's not just incentives from our Gov't but many gov'ts worldwide.

You can think whatever of Musk and Tesla but you can't fight the future. Someday, maybe not too far away, you'll be showing your grandkids your old car and they'll exclaim "Grampa, that runs on gasoline?!!". Battery capacity and technology are improving every year but I don't think we can squeeze anything else out of gasoline or diesel.

You can think whatever of Musk and Tesla but you can't fight the future.

Someday, maybe not too far away, you'll be showing your grandkids your old car and they'll exclaim "Grampa, that runs on gasoline?!!".

Couldn't help but think of the old RUSH song about exactly that... Red Barchetta

" My uncle has a country place no one knows about it used to be a farm before the motor Laws, down in his barn my uncle preserved for me an old machine for 50 odd years...hides a shiny car...

Rush - Red Barchetta Music Video [HD] - YouTube

I think Elon is is on the right track, as are many vehicle manufacturers, with many new hybrids/ electric rigs by 2023

but also don't want any "motor laws" to where a muscle car from back in the day needs to be hidden or driven illegally to enjoy it.

 

[tomato coupe]

Electric cars are a hard sell, so is man made GW caused by CO2 emissions from USA alone, the driving reason behind the push to switch to electric, and especially when the flag ship electric car company has never turned a profit and its cars are crappy. So if you want to discuss electric cars, and demand a switch, you better come prepared to defend "why".

I assume you mean Tesla? Ever driven a Model S? I think they're pretty nice cars. (My points of reference are my 2013 Porsche, 2014 Audi, and 2015 Mercedes.)

 

[cqaigy2]

You can think whatever of Musk and Tesla but you can't fight the future.

Someday, maybe not too far away, you'll be showing your grandkids your old car and they'll exclaim "Grampa, that runs on gasoline?!!".

Couldn't help but think of the old RUSH song about exactly that... Red Barchetta

" My uncle has a country place no one knows about it used to be a farm before the motor Laws, down in his barn my uncle preserved for me an old machine for 50 odd years...hides a shiny car...

Rush - Red Barchetta Music Video [HD] - YouTube

I think Elon is is on the right track, as are many vehicle manufacturers, with many new hybrids/ electric rigs by 2023

but also don't want any "motor laws" to where a muscle car from back in the day needs to be hidden or driven illegally to enjoy it.

Now there's a great band!

 

[dragoneggs]

Fuel taxes are perfect, more you drive more you use road more you pay. Plenty of money, problem is road taxes are taken from roads to fund other stuff, from bike trails to busses, ferry's, and light rail.

I do believe in consumption taxes vs income taxes. That said, I have sympathy for the person that puts in lots of rural mileage that pays for urban infrastructure.