Tesla semi

[houstonscott]

Apple Co-founder Wozniak: Elon Musk's Tesla Is Overhyped

 

[two_bit_score]

Apple Co-founder Wozniak: Elon Musk's Tesla Is Overhyped

Nothing more than a pyramid scheme funded by tax subsidies.

TBS

 

[two_bit_score]

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It looks like the state of California is bailing out Tesla - Business Insider

.

If Tesla Is Worth More Than GM, Why Are Taxpayers Still Subsidizing It? | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

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Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - LA Times

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Time to stop the Tesla charade.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Fuel taxes are perfect, more you drive more you use road more you pay. Plenty of money, problem is road taxes are taken from roads to fund other stuff, from bike trails to busses, ferry's, and light rail.

Nope, not at all. The problem is that each year those gas tax pennies are worth less money, and each year vehicles get more efficient. True use taxes need to be based on vehicle weight and miles driven.

 

[two_bit_score]

Nope, not at all. The problem is that each year those gas tax pennies are worth less money, and each year vehicles get more efficient. True use taxes need to be based on vehicle weight and miles driven.

HS is correct when it comes to the issue in Texas. The Texas DOT funding for highways is raided for so many other programs it’s unreal. Their budget is a huge target every session of the legislature.

.TBS

 

[Renze]

Coming next month. This has always made sense to me because a big truck has the size and power to haul a lot of batteries around.

...I thought trucking companies were payd for hauling tons of cargo, not for hauling tons of batteries... Paccar comes with a 10.8 liter 440hp next to their 12.9 liter version, to give the customer a choice of trading a wee bit of low end torque for 180kg extra cargo capacity... If 180kg of cargo capacity is important for the bottom line of bulk cargo transport, i dont see anyone voluntarily hauling tons of batteries around...

 

[Renze]

.

It looks like the state of California is bailing out Tesla - Business Insider

If Tesla Is Worth More Than GM, Why Are Taxpayers Still Subsidizing It? | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies - LA Times

Time to stop the Tesla charade.

I could not agree more. Here in Holland, i pay 136 euro a month for road tax for my Diesel. I pay 1.20 euro per liter for Diesel fuel, of which 60% goes to the state: first 40% in excise, then 21% VAT over top of that. The Tesla driver pays NO ROAD TAX and gets free charges at various locations along the road. As a business driver, he does not have to pay tax over the vehicle, if the vehicle is part of his salary, as with salesmen driving a corporate vehicle.

So lets put this straight: In Holland i drive a 19 year old Diesel, i pay road tax and excise, for the benefit of those who can afford a Tesla in order to make use of the tax scheme and drive for a way lower cost per mile than me, a working man....

Subsidies are only for those who can afford the means to use them, payd by those who cant afford it...

 

[California]

Here's a research-based article that considers overall life-cycle.
50% was their conclusion overall for Europe with substantial variance by region.

Electric cars emit 50% less greenhouse gas than diesel, study finds:
Researchers calculated the total lifecycle emissions of an electric car, including its manufacture, battery manufacture, and all of its energy consumption


Also, there are several other interesting articles linked from that page.

 

[sd455dan]

Nothing more than a pyramid scheme funded by tax subsidies.

TBS

So Wozniac is not happy the self driving features are not fully functional, or apparently even it's lane keeping assist? Well that is not good for sure BUT
he obviously likes the Tesla cars enough to drive one. Mmm

 

[sd455dan]

After slamming Toshiba for their sale of submarine prop milling machine tech - this showed up on the Volt site,

New Li battery tech- higher charge density and reduction in charging times 32 kwh in 6 minutes

Toshiba Introduces New Ultra-Fast-Charge Battery - GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site

ps. Chevy Bolt now rated as the most reliable GM vehicle by CR and conversely the i3 is the least reliable BMW...

California - that is the study everybody has been asking for, i am sure more studies are needed but the findings look very promising. :thumbsup:


1 final tidbit of info , from a linked Guardian article:

The number of battery-powered vehicles numbered just hundreds globally in 2005 and passed the 1m milestone in 2015, but sales jumped 60% in 2016.
looks like a trend that is accelerating quickly-somewhat like a Model S P85D in ludicrous mode

 

[flyerdan]

A six minute fuel stop is pretty good for a conventional car, when you figure the waiting, getting something from the convenience store and paying. Implement that widely enough and cross country is viable.
Can anyone comment on whether any standardization is being decided on between manufacturers regarding voltages and charging configuration?

 

[California]

All the EV's here but Tesla adhere to one standard, J1772. But only Tesla with their unique high power Supercharger network has located chargers all over where you can make a rational trip plan.

In my opinion EV's are for where you can charge at home or work, possibly at motels etc overnight if you plan a trip, but very rarely would you want to waste the hours at a charging station which would be required for long distance travel. They simply aren't suited for that. You still need a second 'freeway cruiser' to go visit Yellowstone or something.

 

[California]

So Wozniac is not happy the self driving features are not fully functional, or apparently even it's lane keeping assist? Well that is not good for sure BUT
he obviously likes the Tesla cars enough to drive one. Mmm

He's a dreamer, he invented the Apple and Macintosh computers and still thinks in a 'how could this be better' mode all the time.

I read a review he wrote on the Chevy Bolt. He says Tesla is a better long range cruiser but he prefers his Bolt for around town and for runs up to San Francisco (maybe an hour in traffic) because it's zippy and its small dimensions are easier to maneuver and park in the City.

Wozniac isnt anti-EV, he's a born-again convert. But he likes to talk about how this immature technology could be improved.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Here's a research-based article that considers overall life-cycle.
50% was their conclusion overall for Europe with substantial variance by region.

Electric cars emit 50% less greenhouse gas than diesel, study finds:
Researchers calculated the total lifecycle emissions of an electric car, including its manufacture, battery manufacture, and all of its energy consumption


Also, there are several other interesting articles linked from that page.

Ah-h! That is in line with the premise introduced in post #330. -- A check sum, if you will.

Good find.​

 

[prichard]

After slamming Toshiba for their sale of submarine prop milling machine tech - this showed up on the Volt site,

New Li battery tech- higher charge density and reduction in charging times 32 kwh in 6 minutes

How does 32kwh translate to miles?

Nevermind, article claims 200 miles.

But, what is the actual demand in kw of such a charger? Is that feasible for retail like charging?

 

[toppop52]

Here's a research-based article that considers overall life-cycle.
50% was their conclusion overall for Europe with substantial variance by region.

Electric cars emit 50% less greenhouse gas than diesel, study finds:
Researchers calculated the total lifecycle emissions of an electric car, including its manufacture, battery manufacture, and all of its energy consumption


Also, there are several other interesting articles linked from that page.

What about today痴 very efficient gasoline cars?

 

[/pine]

What about today痴 very efficient gasoline cars?

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/10/25/with-new-technology-mazda-gives-spark-to-gasoline-engine.html

 

[toppop52]

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/10/25/with-new-technology-mazda-gives-spark-to-gasoline-engine.html

Electric is viable, it’s not the end all.

 

[houstonscott]

Nope, not at all. The problem is that each year those gas tax pennies are worth less money, and each year vehicles get more efficient. True use taxes need to be based on vehicle weight and miles driven.

They are, diesel vehicles weigh more and pay more per gallon in taxes, and both buy more gas to go further hence they pay more. It's fine.

 

[two_bit_score]

I could not agree more. Here in Holland, i pay 136 euro a month for road tax for my Diesel. I pay 1.20 euro per liter for Diesel fuel, of which 60% goes to the state: first 40% in excise, then 21% VAT over top of that. The Tesla driver pays NO ROAD TAX and gets free charges at various locations along the road. As a business driver, he does not have to pay tax over the vehicle, if the vehicle is part of his salary, as with salesmen driving a corporate vehicle.

So lets put this straight: In Holland i drive a 19 year old Diesel, i pay road tax and excise, for the benefit of those who can afford a Tesla in order to make use of the tax scheme and drive for a way lower cost per mile than me, a working man....

Subsidies are only for those who can afford the means to use them, payd by those who cant afford it...

Thank you for this first hand report! The working people get abused by the excess provided to keep Tesla afloat and at their own expense.