Tesla semi

[Redneck in training]

The military isn稚 just to protect oil, how much provable budget is used to protect foreign oil?

You have two numbers. With the military and without. Pick one.

 

[Redneck in training]

How many powertrains have you replaced. Are the seats torn yet, or has the seat back broke off altogether. You get tired of the stupid touch screen for everything idea, bad ergonomics while driving. A battery and electric motor with an iPad in it is not any thing advanced. Now look at a real technology packed car, built by real car engineers.

BMW Hydrogen 7 - Wikipedia

Hydrogen has two problems.
1.)There are basically two ways producing it. Electrolyze water. That takes a lot of energy. Or coking hydrocarbons. It takes energy too and is potentially polluting process. Both technologies are commonly used and mature.
2.) Energy density in storage. That is a bigger problem. The energy density per volume is lower than batteries. And filling the "tank" can takes as long as quick battery charge.

 

[houstonscott]

Not me I am neither rich or famous, like the "select lessee's" those cars were sold to, not sure why anyone would want a sedan that got less than 5 miles to the gallon anyways, no wonder they stopped after only 3 years.

Why would Tesla sell cars at a loss.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Why would Tesla sell cars at a loss.

Sorry HS, I'm not tracking your comment??? I was replying to your link about the hydrogen BMW's and commenting their lack of fuel economy, I don't understand your reply about tesla selling cars at a loss?

 

[houstonscott]

Sorry HS, I'm not tracking your comment??? I was replying to your link about the hydrogen BMW's and commenting their lack of fuel economy, I don't understand your reply about tesla selling cars at a loss?

Connect the dots.

 

[tomato coupe]

A battery and electric motor with an iPad in it is not any thing advanced. Now look at a real technology packed car, built by real car engineers.

BMW Hydrogen 7 - Wikipedia

BMW took an existing car with an internal combustion engine, and adapted it so it could also burn hydrogen. The efficiency is awful, the range isn't good, the fuel isn't readily available, the liquid hydrogen vents off in about a week if you don't drive it, and it's even more expensive than a fully-optioned Tesla Model S. What am I missing here? What makes the BMW so great?

 

[houstonscott]

BMW took an existing car with an internal combustion engine, and adapted it so it could also burn hydrogen. The efficiency is awful, the range isn't good, the fuel isn't readily available, the liquid hydrogen vents off in about a week if you don't drive it, and it's even more expensive than a fully-optioned Tesla Model S. What am I missing here? What makes the BMW so great?

You are connecting the dots.

 

[tomato coupe]

You are connecting the dots.

There's nothing more useful than cryptic answers to questions about vague statements ...

 

[crazyal]

The port of Long Beach is one of the major gateways for imports into the U.S. There are hundreds of diesel trucks there at any one time, engines idling (and polluting), waiting to get a container loaded onto its trailer from one of those gigantic container ships. From there the load takes a 50-60 mile trip to the hundreds of warehouses in the Inland Empire (San Bernardino, Riverside, Ontario, etc) for distribution. Here is an ideal situation for something like the Tesla Semi. The Long Beach port authority has to limit the amount of truck idling because of air pollution from the diesels. Electric semis will make a big difference.

I think they are too late. Toyota has it's hydrogen powered Kenworths in service at both long beach and LA ports.

 

[crazyal]

Hydrogen has two problems.
1.)There are basically two ways producing it. Electrolyze water. That takes a lot of energy. Or coking hydrocarbons. It takes energy too and is potentially polluting process. Both technologies are commonly used and mature.
2.) Energy density in storage. That is a bigger problem. The energy density per volume is lower than batteries. And filling the "tank" can takes as long as quick battery charge.

Those are the same arguments against EV's. Solar panels at the source of the water can split it to get the hydrogen (clean method) just like solar panels can charge batteries. Or natural gas an be split to get the hydrogen releasing the CO2 (or possibly sequestering it) or can be burnt in a power plant to make electricity. Hydrogen can be pumped and trucked (using Toyota's hydrogen powered Kenworth with the hydrogen produced at the facility). It can even be transported by ship. Electricity needs expensive high tension lines to go any real distance. Our grid is close to being maxed out so adding large volumes to it of people charging their cars at night could be an issue.

Potential break thoughs for batteries is quicker charging batteries while for hydrogen it's using ammonia (since it's safer). Each has it's pros and cons.

 

[KubotainNH]

Regen braking would really be a good deal for trucks, no worries about running out of air on long downgrades and the air brakes would last forever as they would only be used on <5 mph stops and parking. And having trailer drive would really cut into Jamie Davis and Al Quiring's business when they could walk right up the smasher and not spin out going up the Coq.

Ha ha, exactly. I mentioned putting the motors on the trailers multiple pages back, a bit more traction in the snowy areas would be huge.

Has that show gotten any better since the rotator was sold off? The early shows were pretty good.

 

[flyerdan]

It's still a good show, they gave up the AB operation and are just local now. Some of the other towing outfits are getting featured as well. As reality shows go, it's right up there with Ice Pilots.
And back to topic, if they could have sealed batteries on trucks, it would eliminate the diesel spills when a sharp rock opens up a saddle tank when one goes over. Assuming the batteries weren't located where the tanks are, of course. Battery goo would still be an easier cleanup though.

 

[vvanders]

Those are the same arguments against EV's. Solar panels at the source of the water can split it to get the hydrogen (clean method) just like solar panels can charge batteries. Or natural gas an be split to get the hydrogen releasing the CO2 (or possibly sequestering it) or can be burnt in a power plant to make electricity. Hydrogen can be pumped and trucked (using Toyota's hydrogen powered Kenworth with the hydrogen produced at the facility). It can even be transported by ship. Electricity needs expensive high tension lines to go any real distance. Our grid is close to being maxed out so adding large volumes to it of people charging their cars at night could be an issue.

Potential break thoughs for batteries is quicker charging batteries while for hydrogen it's using ammonia (since it's safer). Each has it's pros and cons.

There's a couple problems with hydrogen that make it tricky.

One is that the solar -> hydrogen conversion is something like 20% efficient(see Why a hydrogen economy doesn't make sense) vs 70% efficiency of a pure BEV.

Building a tank that can keep hydrogen contained is very hard. It's a molecule that tends to be very squirrelly. From what I've read it's almost impossible to build a container that doesn't leak in some capacity. If you have a car stored in a garage that's just a recipe for a giant explosion which hydrogen will happily do.

As fuel cells age they get less efficient rather than having less capacity. So while you might have 10% less range as an EV battery degrades you also spend 10% less. As a fuel cell degrades you're still spending the same cost for less range.

That doesn't even get to the whole infrastructure problem which is non-significant.

It does have the advantage of using natural gas as a transition fuel but I don't think that'll offset the rest of the issues.

 

[cqaigy2]

There's nothing more useful than cryptic answers to questions about vague statements ...

I think HS has a bot going.

 

[Redneck in training]

Those are the same arguments against EV's. Solar panels at the source of the water can split it to get the hydrogen (clean method) just like solar panels can charge batteries. Or natural gas an be split to get the hydrogen releasing the CO2 (or possibly sequestering it) or can be burnt in a power plant to make electricity. Hydrogen can be pumped and trucked (using Toyota's hydrogen powered Kenworth with the hydrogen produced at the facility). It can even be transported by ship. Electricity needs expensive high tension lines to go any real distance. Our grid is close to being maxed out so adding large volumes to it of people charging their cars at night could be an issue.

Potential break thoughs for batteries is quicker charging batteries while for hydrogen it's using ammonia (since it's safer). Each has it's pros and cons.

Grid might be maxed out but coal burning plants are penalized for "negative" generation. If something will make coal live little longer it will electric cars.

 

[Sodo]

Connect the dots.

dot: Consumers pay out less for transportation
dot: Petroleum industry has surplus of fuel, must reduce price / profits
dot: USA citizens have cleaner air
dot: petroleum investment sector ramps up public relations projects to discredit competing energies

 

[dragoneggs]

dot: Consumers pay out less for transportation
dot: Petroleum industry has surplus of fuel, must reduce price / profits
dot: USA citizens have cleaner air
dot: petroleum investment sector ramps up public relations projects to discredit competing energies

All fine... a sort of free market society. No where else to the extent that I am aware of... I am considering a Tesla but it hasn't tipped the scales for me, all things considered. Love technology but it has to make sort of sense for me (both for livelihood and lifestyle) or I'm not going to be leading the way. I will let those that don't practice what they preach (Hollywood) be the righteous ones.

 

[mapper]

Portland and Dayton Ohio are the only other cities I know with electric buses
No regenerative brakes in Dayton buses

Seattle has had them for at least 55 years.

 

[dragoneggs]

Seattle has had them for at least 55 years.

Electric yes... but I think Streetcar is talking battery power.

 

[Egon]

There are some Hydrogen Fueling Stations in California.
[video]https://cafcp.org/sites/default/files/h2_station_list.pdf[/video]