Testing a well pump

[chopped]

Greetings, My question is in regards to how to check the motor on the pump, which is several hundred feet below the Gounod.
First some info. Its a submersible pump with a franklin control box like this
Franklin Electric submersible pump motor controls.

The pump will be turned on and there is power to this control box from the pressure controller.(verified with volt light).There is a clicking in the Franklin box like the relay is trying to make the motor start but doesn't..
I should be able to use an ohm meter on the incoming three wires from the pump to check if it itself is OK?If so would they have to be disconnected from the control box terminal block?And what type of ohm reading should there be?
Id much rather start and check here before opening the cap on the well casing itself.
It hasn't been much colder her than usual years , but I think its possible that it tried to pump but the line could be frozen (although highly unlikely).
Thanks in advance for any help.I will go melt snow to flush.
oh here is a picture of the box . bottom of page.

 

[Egon]

The pump should run with a frozen discharge unless the pump itself is frozen. It would also draw mini mun amps pumping in this condition.

Perhaps check the capacitor in your control box?

 

[Phils]

I went through this late last year. I verified voltage to the control box but didn't know how to check that box. It comes off very easily, and I ended up simply taking it to a local pump dealer. He put it on a test machine and gave me the bad news: "the controller is good".

When his crew pulled the pump (a couple of weeks later) the problem was obvious. The half of the pump that contains the impellers had separated from the part that has the motor and the shaft between them was broken. The motor was still operational but I had a new pump installed since that one was 18 years old, as close as I could figure.

Phil

 

[Kays Supply]

A clamp on amp meter put around one of the power lines while it is "running" can tell you a lot. High amps, stuck motor or pump. Low amps, not pumping water. No amps bad connection/ broken wire. Like someone said, swapping the capacitor out is one of the easy things to do. Amp the wires before and after changing the capacitor. Also amp the start wire to see if it is getting off the start winding. It should bump the needle and then go to 0. If it stays drawing amps it is stuck on the start winding or the capacitor isn't getting it going. Also there should be a relay box in the control box to check also. These are few things to try before grunting the pump out.

 

[CurlyDave]

When I did a bad thing (hit the well cap with the backhoe & dropped the pump to the bottom) a couple of years ago, the pump repair people and I recovered the pump & got it hooked up at the proper level.

They then tested the pump in place by checking the current draw on each of the conductors. They had a diagnostic table, supplied by the pump & motor manufacturer of how much current on which wire was good and what were bad readings.

If you had the table and a clamp-on ammeter you could easily do the test yourself.

Call the pump maker or look on their website.

 

[chopped]

Thanks for all the help.I'm probably going to try to replace the control box. seems like a good gamble for the 60 so dollars.If that does work I'm going to replace the well pump with a two wire NO control box pump.
The depth is unknown but I'm banking on the fact that its a 1/3 hp pump p and from what Ive see thats smaller than standard the days So I assume its about 100 or so feet deep and not 300 feet deep.
Anyone have an idea on this assumption? I believe if it was figured right sized back in the day it would be. Thanks all

 

[Kays Supply]

You might think about the two wire pump. IF you fix this one for 60 bucks , you will have to pull the two wire pump and replace the motor to repair the same problem you did yourself for $60. Just food for thought.

 

[Elmer Schmidt]

You don't mention how often the motor relay clicks, each time you turn the power on and off or repeated with power on. A water pump does a lot of starts and stops over the years so the contacts on the pressure switch may be used up or corroded if there is a little dampness.
Also I have seen submersible pumps with the suction screen completely covered over with iron and other minerals that built up over the years and because they were submersible they never noticed untill there was no water.
Hope I was helpfull. Elmer

 

[nue2farm]

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. My wife woke me up at 4:30 AM to let me know we had no water. I checked the breaker for the well pump and the pressure switch. A few hours later I was able to get a well guy to come out and help me. He checked what I had checked. He then checked the control box, which was by the well head. He said it was most likely bad. I had him replace it and everything was good to go. $75.00 solved my problem. Good luck

 

[chopped]

Elmer, As it is now the relay will click on and off steadily about few seconds . Also i should add this pump has seen way to many starts and stops. The air bladder in the tank has been without air for a few years. This is my sisters , and she refused to listen to me when I told her about the tank. ( thats another issue lol). So Ive stood there and seen it on and off almost as it shuts off it comes on. all because in my mind the tank needs to have the air bladder filled..But point is the tank without air. the pump when water is used would cycle allot more than it would with a properly operated tank. I'm not sure, if the tank is salvageable. When i get the new pump in and water flowing ill see
the tank is gonna be charged with just a few lbs under the pump kick in pressure. (we shall see if it holds air) if not it too will have to be replace.
Thanks for all the inputs, and Ill check the contacts on the pressure switch, but I'm getting voltage off of the outward sides.
but wont hurt to check it.
Thanks again and keept he responces coming im learning

 

[PILOON]

With a control box you have a 3 wire pump.
Wires should be yellow, red and black
For 1/2 HP 110 volt readings are: B-Y1.3 ohms,R-Y 4.7 ohms, B-R 6 ohms.
For 1/2 HP 230 ............................ 5.2 ............19.6...............24.8

Since I have the charts, if this does not fit your specs, PM me with the HP and voltage and I'll fwd the info.

Good luck!
and PS all those submergables are run with Franklin Motors
And from your description you need a new tank. (probably not a pump, but maybe a control/resay box for the pump). Newer models use diode switching rather than mechanical relays that eat up the relay contacts.

 

[wjmst]

Elmer, As it is now the relay will click on and off steadily about few seconds . Also i should add this pump has seen way to many starts and stops. The air bladder in the tank has been without air for a few years. This is my sisters , and she refused to listen to me when I told her about the tank. ( thats another issue lol). So Ive Thanks again and keept he responces coming im learning

A new tank would have a place to hook up an air compressor or tire pump and add air to it if needed. Does you tank have that and if so, did you check the pressure in it with a tire gauge or try to add some air?

Wes

 

[chopped]

OK< Well after allot of considerations and the overall age of the pump system. I decided to pull it out and replace with a two wire 220 colt unit.Well I got it opened up and put my removal tool down to the pitiless adapter, and pulled it upward.
It went nice and free for about 5 or 6 feet then jammed. I lowered a flashlight down and found that the static level was 25 feet. so still not sure just how deep it is but its jammed real tight. I couldn't even get it to move downward either.
My friend thinks that the anti torq rubber thingy moved and is holding it back.The next step is a tripod and yank it up wards with a come along. I'm a bit scared to do this but Ill have to . I hope the pump rips off and settles to the bottom.It is possible it just need that little bit more of pull Its difficult to get much leverage by hand standing over it.I have done a few pumps and never had this trouble, so I'm not sure if the pros have an occasional tough pull one like this. so thats where i am at this point. and suggestions or experiences are really appreciated.

 

[Jimbrown]

You need to repalce the pressure tank also. If the bladder is bad and there is no pressure difference. Then the pump runs against a tremendous load when a faucet is turned on and just a little water is being used. The thing is designed for the pump to be able to flo at near full capacity into the tank and then shut off. I would suspect the thing has been running against high pressure because the tank is bad when just one sink or commode is running. Guaranteed to burn the pump up.

 

[TheGoose]

You need to stop right there. I say this for several reasons.

First, your pump/motor might not be bad. Even though it was short cycled for too long that doesn't automatically mean that it is a bad pump. Your pressure switch may not be making good contact, or your control box might be the culprit. As you stated, a control box costs $60. If you don't know the HP of your pump you can put a 1-HP (common size) and it should run a 1 HP down to a 1/2 HP pump OK. You need to make sure that you have 230V (or 110V if it is a 100V pump) going to the box when the pressure switch is engaged. Look at the pressure switch/contacts and box. Smell them (make sure the power is off!). Sometimes you can smell a blown capacitor/relay etc. Franklin control boxes can be easily swapped because the lids are interchangable. Unbolt the lid and put the new lid in place. The guts are in the lid, the base only has connectors. Easily swapped.

Second, if there is a problem with the pump/motor, it will have to be changed out. There is no problem with pulling your own submersible pump but a stuck pump is a serious problem. Your local water well repairman may know something you don't know about getting the pump out. Is there a pitless adapter? What kind of hardware is attached to the line etc? You may need to go down with the pump in order to get it unstuck. If it is hung on plastic it might be a tricky proposition to get it unstuck.

A pump stuck in a well might be a big enough problem to have to have a new well drilled unless it can either be fished or forced all the way down. If you make the problem worse you will only end up spending more money to make it right.

 

[chopped]

thanks everyone for the insight
It turned out to have just needed a harder pull to remove it. and I found the motor to be locked up. so replaced the whole pump.
Thanks again always learning

 

[TheGoose]

Glad you got her fixed.