Thanks to George...

[cowboydoc]

Hess,
I completely agree with what you say there. I completely agree that teachers are underpaid, no doubt about that!!! I'm not rich by any means either but I do make a comfortable living. But you and I do pay more than our fair share already. I mean if your brother really wanted to there are opportunities for a person. I don't mean this harshly but another person's life choices should not be my responsibility. The tax rate has been dropped again for the lower income to 10-15%. From what I've read there was no drop in the upper tax brackets. Everyone is getting a tax refund of $300 per person or $600 if you filed jointly. I just have a real problem with over half of what I make going to taxes in on form or another: federal, state, local, city, property, sales tax, etc. etc. Iowa is 5% state sales tax, 1% county, and 1% city and our property taxes are the third highest in the nation. I also employ several people and have to pay their workers comp., health insurance, employee taxes, and half of their social security taxes which accounts for another huge chunk of the bottom line. I don't remember the exact quote but it's something like the top 10% in the country pay like 70% of the taxes in the country and 70% of the people pay 10% of the tax bill. I guess when I hear someone say that I don't deseve some tax money back it's like someone telling you that you don't deserve more money for teaching. You sure do and it's sure not fair what you're paid.

 

[Von]

Hess I don't know where you are, but teachers here make way too much for what they do. In the town I am in the gym teachers that have been here awhile are making over 80k! Not bad for teaching 3-4 classes a day and only working 180 days a year. and for my property taxes of over 12k for both places you think my gifted child could get some sort of extra activitys to keep her busy in school? sorry no extra money, 82% of the money collected goes to teachers pay! Move to NY if you need more money, highest paid teachers are right here in the country. As for your brother I feel sorry for him, but I work hard for my money so can he. Try two jobs or going back to school and getting ahead. Don't ask me to pay his way because I am able to make money. The more you make the more you should get back!

 

[Rick572]

And How much did the person with 1.1 million pay in taxes as opposed to the person with $20,000?

 

[DrDan]

I certainly agree with you regarding being an employer. I also employ several people and by the time you get done with all the government tax, federal and state unemployment, workers comp, etc. you wonder whether you are going to break even sometimes. I think I'd prefer getting a W-2 at the end of the year and not have to deal with 2 months of tax preparation.

Dr Dan

 

[hess]

Richard, Bird, Branch, other members,
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss some truly relevant and controversial topics. Although I disagree with much of what has been said, I realize that we have been shaped by our life's experiences, and I do not begrudge anyone their opinion.
By the same token, it is hard for me to argue with most of you, when I believe so much in "personal responsiblity" myself.
For example, I am often frustrated when people criticize the public education system for failing the children, and wonder how much of the failure rests with the child, or for that matter, the parents.
I am disheartened by the "knee-jerk" reaction to blame someone else for whatever goes wrong (be it an accident, a murderer claiming he was abused as a child, someone rolling their 4-wheeler on your property and then suing, etc.).
I often think, what a world this would be if everyone COULD "reap what they sow."
But deep inside, I feel the COULD often depends upon your station in life (how much $$ your parents made, the community you grew up in, genetics, athletic ability, physical looks, luck), variables with which all men are not created equal.
Thanks again for the forum.
hess

 

[Bird]

Yeah, Hess, I agree. There are many variables involved, and while I certainly agree that usually a person is responsible for what he/she reaps, I also know there's a lot of luck involved at times, too; being in the right place at the right time with the right information, knowledge, resources, talent, etc.

Bird

 

[Branch]

Living here in So. Calif. you see every extreme. Movie stars with millions to homeless living in boxes. I don't see the need for either personally. Our society seems pleased with the truck loads of money we hand over to movie stars and sports celebrities and begrudge the no body who works their butt off and supplies jobs to the rest of society. A movie star speaks and the world listens. Why?
If I could get relief on my taxes I'd be happy to hire more people, maybe get some people out of those boxes. A good percentage of the money I give the government, I think, would be better spent hiring people and improving their life. $10 saved in taxes would go directly to someone who works for me. But I wonder how much of my $10 in taxes actually ends up doing any body any good. Right now I wish I could get back some taxes I've paid over the last couple of years, when times were good, so I could continue to pay employees right now when things are lean. I think I can do a better job of distributing my money than the government does.
I don't know whether I deserve the money I make, but if the government takes it away from me I have no recourse but to stop giving money to my employees. Where's the sense in that. Lets put the government on a diet and let everyone keep more of their own money. This thread started out talking about sending over charged taxes back to the people who paid them. Some people will pay their electric bill with it, others might buy a new yacht, so what. The guy who buys the yacht will help 100's of people in a hundred different companies pay their electric bills. The money circulates and changes hands. Everyone from the paper boy to the woodworker gets a share of it. If we're really lucky the economy will get better and the rich guy will buy a newer, bigger yacht, that costs more and employs more people in 110 different industries. Or he might put the money in the bank and the bank loans it to somebody who's worked their butt off to get a new tractor.
I just don't see how the government taking it is going to help.

Branch

 

[Bird]

Branch, we really do have an odd system, don't we? Whether you're a business owner or a guy working on a salary, you know how much money you have and then budget (whether formally or informally) how and where you're going to spend it. Sounds sensible to me . . .. But that ain't the way government works. They decide how and where they're going to spend the money, and how much they're going to spend, and then set a tax rate to take that amount from us. Don't you wish you could just decide yourself how much money you want to spend and then tell you employer (or customers) to give it to you?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Well said Bird and Branch, well said!

 

[Wingnut]

Hess ... as someone else has already pointed out ... the guy who pays more gets more back. Unless you happen to be a ciommunist who firmly believes that you're entiltled to my money just because you think you should be ... well ... maybe you're living in the wrong country. This is still supposed to be a republic ... or a reprasentative democracy.
And while I can't disagree with you that you are worth 1-1/2 mil per year in salary ... I would say that I would have no objection as long as you're treated like those of us who don't live out of taxpayers pockets. We are paid based on what we produce or how well we perform in achieving the targets that we're assigned. Based on the performance of all the students that I see interviewed, the statistics that I see in the (left wing) papers ... and the quality of applicants for jobs I post ... I'd say that teachers as a whole (I don;t know you so I can't debate your worth) are vastly overpaid and owe the taxpayers a huge rebate.
I, personally, think that the national teachers union should be treated as the flight controllers were ... and then each teacher that wants to actually educate kids should have to pass tests to prove they're qualified for the classes the teach (or want to). And that goes more than double for professors. I think we should treat them just like Democrats treat everyone that is put forward for a government position. Make them appear in a kangeroo court and show why they should simply be sent to Siberia.
Do I sound bitter? You bet. I've paid high (mostly top) taxes all my life and get to pay for educating other peoples kids (never had any, never will .. refused to bring kids into a world populated with socialist thieves) ... and then I get to pay for remedial education ... an dthen welfare ... and then court dates ... and then more education ... and then trade school ... an dthen prison ... and then welfare again ... because we're a compassionate society and have to bring everyone along on our journey to ... what ... hell? That certainly seems to be where all the pro-death politically correct people want to take us.
OK </vent> sorry for the long post but I get soooo tired of hearing evryone whine about how they're more entitled to my income. If you want to make as much as I do ... then quit feeding at the public trough and get a job in the private sector ... and work as hard as I do.

too bad that common sense ain't