The 3,000 Mile Oil Change Myth

[Doc_Bob]

It痴 been a misconception for years that engine oil should be changed every 3000 miles, even though most auto manufacturers now recommend oil changes at 5,000, 7,000, or even 10,000 mile intervals under normal driving conditions.

Greatly improved oils, including synthetic oils, coupled with better engines mean longer spans between oil changes without harming an engine. The 3000 mile interval is a carryover from days when engines used single-grade, non-detergent oils.


Read on......................



The-3-000-Mile-Oil-Change-Myth- Yahoo! Autos Article Page

 

[crabjoe]

I didn't read the article, but I've known about 3000 mile BS for years.

In my diesel pickup, I do oil changes every 10K miles. I came to this number after having my oil analyzed. Even at 10K miles, the oil (dino, NOT synthetic) comes back clean, but it just didn't feel right to go past that.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

Lets see....
So the industry that really needs to move some volume is telling us that we can back off on maintenance of our exsisting fleet?...
Yeah!
Like I'm buying that.

 

[NuBota]

I agree the interval is BS. But I still follow it when the vehicle is under warranty and keep receipts and records.

Had a 2000 Dodge Intrepid with the 2.7L engine. Great car, but developed a serious sludge problem before hitting 40K miles. Timing chain jumped ("hydraulic" tensioner became clogged) but Chrysler argued that the sludge was my fault due to not changing the oil at the prescribed intervals. As I had no records or receipts, I couldn't prove it and they wouldn't fix it under warranty. So now I keep records and change at the recommended interval while under warranty.

Of course it is interesting to see the article is from the environmental folks and not someone just trying to expose a rip-off

 

[irwin]

Careful now, it is true that many engines can handle extended oil changes. It is also true that some can't.

Google VW oil sludge problem and you'll see what I mean, you'll also see it's not just VW.
I've worked in auto repair since the early eighties, had many engines apart, I can tell when oil changes aren't done regularly. This is what I've been told by the owners.."sometimes I let it go 5-6k miles" what I think happens is they let it go 10k miles, I work on their cars enough to know it's not much more.

I recommend 3000 miles oil changes with dyno if there's a lot of stop and go driving, for the the long distance drivers I tell them to follow what's in the manual. Some engines have a large volume of oil like some diesel trucks, depending on situations those engines could go quite a while between changes, but I'd recommend having it tested like crabjoe.

Just a note of caution from someone who has seen dirty oil damage.

 

[dieseldave56]

The problem with extended service policies are not that the oil breaks down but the contaminates that form in the oil . Unburned fuel from cold startups, dilutes oil decreasing the lubricity.Moisture and gycol form as a part of the combustion process ( particularly with the filler ethanol forumlas). That moisture combines with hydrocarbons to form sludge. Sludge is not good , as Mr NuBota can attestify to. Mr NuBota are you South African? Another problem with extended oil service practices is the acid that forms again as part of the combustion process.

So as you can plainly see even OEM filtering ( which generally filters only 10-20 microns, with a full flow filter) will not eliminate the reall problem. I have had Blackstone labs check my fluids in a all my vehicles for a number of years.

I take a number of precausionary steps in my vehicles , as most are collector such as fuel/water seperator filter, remote bye pass filtration systems with <1 micron Fleetguard ES Venturi filters. Also added is a coolant filter . The addition of pre/post lubrication pumps that bring oil pressure to 25-30 psi before startup. These practices I adapted from the diesel engine. I change my fluids myself at the scheduled mileage or time reference as per manufacturer.

Being a retired machinist and hobbist engine builder for 35 years I have noted many changes in engine tolerances and metalurgy due to technology. But I see no practical reason to decrease my maintenance habits.

The 1950 Case DI manual calls for 120 hour of operation before filter and engine oil change. The original engine was rebuilt so now the superior added filtration and grades of oil from todays technology will only extend the life of this machine. Fluid and filter changes are the most inexpensive insurance one can provide their vehicle. I see no advantage in implementing an extended fluid service policy.

 

[dieseldave56]

The problem with extended service policies are not that the oil breaks down but the contaminates that form in the oil . Unburned fuel from cold startups, dilutes oil decreasing the lubricity.Moisture and gycol form as a part of the combustion process ( particularly with the filler ethanol forumlas). That moisture combines with hydrocarbons to form sludge. Sludge is not good , as Mr NuBota can attestify to. Mr NuBota are you South African?

So as you can plainly see even OEM filtering ( which generally filters only 10-20 microns, with a full flow filter) will not eliminate the reall problem. I have had Blackstone labs check my fluids in a all my vehicles for a number of years.

I take a number of precausionary steps in my vehicles , as most are collector such as fuel/water seperator filter, remote bye pass filtration systems with <1 micron Fleetguard ES Venturi filters. Also added is a coolant filter . These practices I adapted from the diesel engine. I change my fluids myself at the scheduled mileage or time reference as per manufacturer.

Being a retired machinist and hobbist engine builder for 35 years I have noted many changes in engine tolerances and metalurgy due to technology. But I see no practical reason to decrease my maintenance habits.

The 1950 Case DI manual calls for 120 hour of operation before filter and engine oil change. The original engine was rebuilt so now the superior added filtration and grades of oil from todays technology will only extend the life of this machine. Fluid and filter changes are the most inexpensive insurance one can provide their vehicle.

 

[JJT]

Based on used oil analysis I do 10kmis oil changes on both cars. Even at 10k the oil analysis says there is life left in the synthetic oil I use, but 10k is a nice easy number to remember. This equates to 2 - 3 oil changes per year. I do use a premium oversized oil filter.

The tractors get an annual change, (under 100 hours each). I'm also running synthetic with the diesels.

I was a 3k oil change guy for 25+ years, (dino not synthetic).

 

[NuBota]

... Mr NuBota are you South African?

No Dave - thought I was being witty - Newbie with a Kubota = NuBota. My whole life no one gets my jokes....

As far as my sludge problem - regular oil changes were done. Problem was the 2.7 engine design. 2000 was it's first year. There were major issues - mainly oil flow that caused the sludge issues. From 2001 on the 2.7 was re-designed to address the issues. However, Chrysler disavowed any problem - AT FIRST. There were enough proven cases - and they finally settled with me - a $4k check to cover replacement motor. Took fours years of many others fighting to get Chrysler to finally pony up - by the time I applied, it was a quick and painless process.

As far as your other points - I have nothing scientific to say. I just know in years past I was horrible about regular maintenance and I would run my vehicles to 150K + miles - even little 4 cyl - with no major engine issues. Designs today seem to be much more sensitive in passenger cars. I believe motor designs to meet EPA standards account for most. Trucks and SUVs seem to be more like the "iron" workhorses of old.

Regardless - I have adopted much stricter maint. habits as I get older - for the sake mentioned before and probably cause I'm becoming an old fart set in his ways.....

 

[ray66v]

I never fell for this, 5k is plenty often for any car driven regularly.

I have done a lot of mostly city driving, (32 years worth), with Pennziol/Fram, My vehicles never use any oil, engines are clean inside when doing maintenance, and always are driven to the junkyard, because everything else is has failed.

Our current inventory; Villager has over 150K, Aerostar, 135K, Malibu 100K. All run like when they were new.

If I had changed my oil every 3K, I would be one of the ones saying, Look at my mileage! it makes a difference!

 

[Doc_Bob]

The 6-cyl Toyota Camry's were infamous for small oil channel with numerous claims. My Dad's Camry has been a nightmare.

I use my 2007 Chevy Malibu Oil life monitor. I drive very gently. Most trips 50+ miles and never hammer the accelerator. 6K on my last Synthetic Oil and filter change and 40% oil life left per the OLM. Will I go to 10K??? Probably not. But doubling from 3K to 6K is a start! I have been "addicated" to 3K change intervals for years and it is a tough habit to break.

I "know" you can't tell the condition of oil from just looking at it, but mine looks like it did the day I filled the engine, just a touch darker.

The 3K mile oil change mindset is a leftover of a bygone era. 3K is near the status of a religious belief and therefore no amount of rational thought will change some folks opinion. I now I struggle to believe that it can be longer than 3K and to follow the engineers suggestions who actually built the engine. What a concept? Listen to the subject matter experts and not Pennzoil marketing.

I find changing my oil 2x year to be half as much $$$$ and half as much work as doing it 4x year.

Now, if I did lot's of stop and go, with lot's of idling, I assume that the OLM would indicate that extreme service mode and shorten the life of the oil. That is the only time I would change at 3K miles.

Oops, I did do the first oil and filter at 3K!!!!

Bob

BTW, my 2.2L 4-cyl does 37 MPG at 65MPH on summer fuel with one passenger on level Wisconsin roads. I wish I could get a 1.6L 4-CYL and see my mileage increase!

 

[Skyco]

Hi my name is Skyco and I too was a frequent oil changer

I've "retired" a number of company cars over the years that got much less frequent oil changes than my stuff. Guess what? None of them ever used oil or had an internal engine problem and all went 150,000 miles plus..

So now I go 5K miles on our Honda Pilot and about 4k miles on my 96 Powerstroke F350...I know, I know, probably a little early for the PSD but it has a tough life since it is almost always totin' a load...besides the PSDs are well know for running poorly when the oil gets too used for the oil driven injection system to run right...even though the oil is probably still fine for other purposes.
I must confess I change oil pretty frequently in my Suzuki DL1000 motorcycle, but it only takes 2.5 quarts and is a high performance engine relative to a car engine, and also has the transmission run in the same oil. And yeah my baby BX24 will also get treated to perhaps a little early oil changes....since I expect it to outlast ME, one of my sons will have it someday.

 

[ihookem]

You might notice the only people advertising 3k changes are the Quicky lube companies. It's a fact most oil dino oil is still good at 7-10 k. I go 15k with Amsoil in My Duramax diesel , 90k on it and has burned 1/4 quart in 11k mi. I might go to 20k and have an oil test done, or I might change it. I know a guy with 80k mi. on his oil with his truck and the test still says it's good for more use. If the test was wrong the engine would go 50 mi. down the road and the engine would be junk, so the oil still must be good. His dad told me he bought a 57 Chevy (327) And ran the same oil with a toilet paper filter for 110k. I asked him... Well what then? He looked at me and said "then the engine was junk," and walked away. Perhaps we just need better filters like 1 or 2 micron filters. We don't change our tranny oil every 3k, so as long as you can keep your oil kleen enough it's good.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm only 42 years old, so I'm probably off base here, but it seems that when I was younger, 5,000 miles was the normal period to change the engine oil and filter. Then somewhere in the 80's, commercials on TV started pushing that oil needs to be changed every 3,000 miles. I think it was those quick change places that were pushing it, but it could be the oil companies too. I don't rememeber any auto companies saying this, but I've always owned trucks and Jeeps, so I probably just missed it.

I change auto oil at five thousand miles and have never had a engine problem that was oil related. All my problems are elsewhere.

Tractor oil is changed once a year in the spring time. I usually don't run them too much in the winter, but when it warms up here, it's time to change fluids and filters regardless of hours.

Eddie

 

[frank_miller]

my engines are 10 to 15K drains. lawn stuff is either 1 year of 1.5 years, based on UOA. This is from a TX clown too! LOL

 

[motepoc]

I know I'm either going to be blown off, or thought to be lying, but here goes. I change my oil somewhere in the 25K to 30K range. I have a 1993 Buick LaSabre that has the big six cyl in it. It has 175,627 miles on it. Ii bought it brand new and took three trips to Pa from SC the first year. Got 32MPG from it then, get 30 MPG now. At 100,000 miles I started adding three cap fulls of Marvel Mystery Oil to each quart I put in it when it gets low. Guess, I'm can't expect it to run much longer even though it purrs when cranked, which it does instantly. Oh well, maybe I'll buy another LaSabre when this one bites the dust.
By the way, I also have a Regal that is going the same route, too bad for it too.

 

[thatguy]

The owners manual on my wifes 2002 Honda CRV (holds 4.5 qts) said to change the oil at 10k... We thought that was too long for so we shoot for around 5k.. It does not have an onboard oil analyzer, which it did though..

I am switching my wifes car over to Amsoil and going to go for around 15k, with changing the filter a couple times inbetween.

My 2002 Dodge/cummins (holds 12 qts) manual said under severe condition (which is anything except 100% highways miles) would be 3750 miles, I go for 4k. Even with highway driving it said change it around 6k or so. They recommended the same intervals for synthetic oils as well.

Brian

 

[Dargo]

I happen to do a considerable amount of business with a company that replaces about 8000 to 10,000 vehicle engines a year. Do you want to know what is by far the most common reason for the engine failure? Lack of proper lubrication due to motor oil that tests out at being far past it's usable life. Since this is an indisputable fact, I'm likely never going to push any 20k miles between oil changes. Just because you do one, two or even ten oil analysis', exactly how do you know if or when your engine starts to break down it's oil prematurely due to contamination, a defective filter, a poor batch of oil, a defective air filter, etc., etc., etc.? The fact is you don't.

Since it would be a rather difficult task to challenge the manufacturer's recommended interval that ranges between 5k to 10k, I personally think you're playing with fire (based on what I see every day) by pushing it past that mark. I'll readily admit that I used to do my oil changes at 3k right on the button for decades. Heck, I am the guy who even keeps a little log book in the glove box that not only logs each and every oil and filter change, but also every single thing done to the vehicle except filling it up with fuel.

I know of dozens of Chrysler/Dodge and Toyota dealerships that required the use of synthetic oil in the engines that were known to be troublesome; i.e. the 3 liter Toyota and the 2.7 liter Chrysler. The dealerships couldn't actually "require" the customers to use synthetic oil in those engines, but the customers who did so basically never experienced the sludge problem that is well documented with those issues. If I recall it correctly, both manufacturers refer to the issue as "premature gelling of the lubrication".

Anyway, I digress. I do feel that changing oil every 3k is a waste of money. However, based on experience, that waste of money is generally not as much as the financial loss from those who tend to push their oil too far. I'd have to say that it would be a good plan to either follow your onboard oil monitor or go by the manufacturer's recommendations. Either way, I believe you're covered quite well and are not likely to become one of my statistics.

 

[VA_Joe]

I agree - 3K is too little and 10K is too much. I usually think about changing at 5K and actually do the deed about 6K or 7K.

One thing about using the engine oil monitor on GM trucks is that you still need pay attention to the maximum recommended time and mileage intervals even if the engine oil monitor says the oil is okay. This is because the monitor on GM trucks is not analyzing the oil but rather monitoring how the engine is being used (number of starts, engine oil temperature, pressure, engine run time, rpms, etc.). It has no way of knowing if there is a water/sludge build-up or metal filings in the oil pan (at least not on GM trucks). The monitor should only be used as an indicator that you need to change the oil earlier than usual (due to "heavy" or "extreme" duty use) vice exceeding any manufacturer recommended maximum time/mileage intervals.

With that said - it will be interesting to see if Diamler can get their new and improved engine oil monitor (per the article) to work reliably in production cars and get it down to a price that normal folks can afford. Since they haven't even gotten it into fleet vehicles yet - I get the feeling they still have a way to go.

Joe

 

[Doc_Bob]

I agree - 3K is too little and 10K is too much. I usually think about changing at 5K and actually do the deed about 6K or 7K.

With that said - it will be interesting to see if Diamler can get their new and improved engine oil monitor (per the article) to work reliably in production cars and get it down to a price that normal folks can afford. Since they haven't even gotten it into fleet vehicles yet - I get the feeling they still have a way to go.

Joe

Looks like great technology with a learning curve. It would be nice to see the OLM and the "direct" oil monitor (Mercedes) run at the same time on the same vehicle. Different methodologies measuring different parameters. They sound complimentary.
Bob