The joys of bidding work

[mjncad]

I understand the feeling Lone Cowboy. I do sideline work with my tractor that I advertise in the neighborhood directory. I do it to supplement our income only and I don't make much at all doing it.

I had this property manager from California that bought a house originally seized from the original owner by the IRS call looking to get the weeds mowed since the HOA is bugging him. Now this guy doesn't know anything about brush cutters and the like, and that's fine; but he's called 3-times seeking information that I have told him very clearly on the phone. He then emails me asking for the formal estimate. I could tell this guy was being **** retentive to the extreme, and I determined that the $120 to cut 1.6 acres wasn't worth my hassle dealing with him. I placed enough terms and conditions in my polite email reply with the estimate that I hope I don't hear from him.

On the other hand, I have a customer who knows what he wants, is easy to work with, and tips generously to boot. Is he rich? No; but he appreciates what he and his wife have busted their humps to obtain. He has turned into a friend too, which is a benefit in my book. For new and existing customers I have raised my rates since they were the same as they were 5-years ago. My best customer/friend gets the old rate.

 

[JoeinTX]

I don't know.

LC stated the original job was out of the way and a break-even venture, so, adding another break-even job that he could do without to this trip doesn't necessarily seem the best idea in all cases. Yes, I understand "good will" and all but that doesn't buy dinner.

"I also don't like negotiating on price. It's a bad sign that once they do it once, they will continue to do it. If you had agreed to the $400, he would want to lower it in time, or try to get you to do something extra for the same money. Some people just never stop pushing it, and I'd rather not deal with them..."

My thoughts exactly as I was reading his original post. It's not just about $50, it's also about the relationship and respect between the buyer and seller because so often times a seller's willingness to "work with" the buyer or compromise can be interpreted as weakness. This time it's $50 but next time it could be payment that doesn't show up for 3 months and then after that who knows. This guy could talk to his other neighbor and tell him that LC is cutting his place for $400 and the neighbor might approach and expect LC to his for the same or even less..........ya know, since everyone likes to bargain and all. Well, when LC sticks to his guns about the price this other neighbor could think he's being a prick and then pass that along to others in the neighborhood. Who knows?

Sometimes doing these little jobs does foster some benefit......other times they can be more trouble than they are literally worth. We all have the widow/widower down the road who can't take care of their place and you pitch in and cut their acre for $50 out of charity or feeling of obligation to them. But, you can't make a business out of it.

 

[HighLoader]

LC, you did the right thing for yourself and him. I am in a different line of work and it is simular in dealing with customers. I try not to work for the cheap ones and if I do I stay clear on what I am worth and what the job should cost. I am always nice about it and firm at the same time. If I give someone a brake it is because I want to. Some customers even leave a blank check for me to fill in myself and then I just leave a note for them on how much I filled it in for. Others I just give them a number at the end of the job and they still give me a tip. It is nice when people appreciate you and your hard work. You have expensive equipment and you need to cover yourself. I think I saw a post that you got a new tractor recently. As it was you were giving him a fair price and if anything you could even charge more than the average rate to make up for the equipment purchase. Unless you really need his buisness bad I would wait for him to come and appoligize to you for trying to low ball your already fair price.

 

[Kendall69]

Man I've never heard so much negative about a CUSTOMER in my life, seriously.

Customers are the ones that buy the tractor, pay for the fuel, roof over ones head and food on the table.

It's amazing how a guy who wanted to negotiate for a few buck off is all of a sudden a Jerk, tightwad, bad person, and in hock up to his eye balls.

Are you telling me, you all pay the price you are quoted from everyone you deal with - now we all know that's not true, so how is this guy any different than all of us. Unless everyone here has paid 100% asking price for their tractors, and implements without negotiating a free tank of fuel, some filters, a hat, or key fob. Gee what if every dealer said I'm not dealing with these people who always want to buy my tractor for less than what I'm asking. Yea sounds funny doesn't it. Anyone who said he hasn't done what this guy did is a liar.

And as far as "neighbor might approach and expect LC to his for the same" DUH, that's the point - I think LC would be laughing all the way to the bank. That's called Gorilla marketing.
If LC doesn't want to do everyone in the neighborhood for $400.00 a whack, let me know I'll drive over and do it myself.

To assume this guy would want the next job for less and his neighbor then would want less than that, is ludicrous. Quite the opposite "might" be just as true, they could have more land, for more money or less land for the same $400.00, or any combination thereof.

And how do you find this out? by talking to all those POTENTIAL customers, which by the way, are now non existent, since the neighbor will now tell his neighbors never call LC because his price is too high and won't budge.

I'd rather have a shot at those 10 neighbors to at least have a foot in the door to see if I could glean some or any business, at least I would have a chance at making more money. Now there is 100% chance of making no extra money.

And this "about negotiating once sets a precedent" - hogwash. The price was determined by the circumstance available at the time, period. Each subsequent neighbor and bid stands on it's own, determined by terrain, vegetation, access, sq. footage, etc. etc. etc.

If and only if the guy becomes a Jerk by consistently hammering down the price, by all means dump him like a hot potato, but there is and was no indication of that with the cursory conversation, so to label this guy Oh, and all his neighbors, as a chronic negotiator is unfair, and unprofitable.

Now about the statement adding another break even job, doesn't make any sense. The break even job was the first job, that figures the price of time and fuel to the FIRST job, and back home - that's all computed in the first job.
The second job is the money maker, because there is no fuel to get there, no drive time to and from the job, the only additional costs are labor, tractor fuel, and tractor depreciation, in other words job number two was sweet profit. In fact job two would have always taken job one from break even to profitable job.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Man I've never heard so much negative about a CUSTOMER in my life, seriously.

Customers are the ones that buy the tractor, pay for the fuel, roof over ones head and food on the table.

It's amazing how a guy who wanted to negotiate for a few buck off is all of a sudden a Jerk, tightwad, bad person, and in hock up to his eye balls.

Are you telling me, you all pay the price you are quoted from everyone you deal with - now we all know that's not true, so how is this guy any different than all of us. Unless everyone here has paid 100% asking price for their tractors, and implements without negotiating a free tank of fuel, some filters, a hat, or key fob. Gee what if every dealer said I'm not dealing with these people who always want to buy my tractor for less than what I'm asking. Yea sounds funny doesn't it. Anyone who said he hasn't done what this guy did is a liar.

And as far as "neighbor might approach and expect LC to his for the same" DUH, that's the point - I think LC would be laughing all the way to the bank. That's called Gorilla marketing.
If LC doesn't want to do everyone in the neighborhood for $400.00 a whack, let me know I'll drive over and do it myself.

To assume this guy would want the next job for less and his neighbor then would want less than that, is ludicrous. Quite the opposite "might" be just as true, they could have more land, for more money or less land for the same $400.00, or any combination thereof.

And how do you find this out? by talking to all those POTENTIAL customers, which by the way, are now non existent, since the neighbor will now tell his neighbors never call LC because his price is too high and won't budge.

I'd rather have a shot at those 10 neighbors to at least have a foot in the door to see if I could glean some or any business, at least I would have a chance at making more money. Now there is 100% chance of making no extra money.

And this "about negotiating once sets a precedent" - hogwash. The price was determined by the circumstance available at the time, period. Each subsequent neighbor and bid stands on it's own, determined by terrain, vegetation, access, sq. footage, etc. etc. etc.

If and only if the guy becomes a Jerk by consistently hammering down the price, by all means dump him like a hot potato, but there is and was no indication of that with the cursory conversation, so to label this guy Oh, and all his neighbors, as a chronic negotiator is unfair, and unprofitable.

Now about the statement adding another break even job, doesn't make any sense. The break even job was the first job, that figures the price of time and fuel to the FIRST job, and back home - that's all computed in the first job.
The second job is the money maker, because there is no fuel to get there, no drive time to and from the job, the only additional costs are labor, tractor fuel, and tractor depreciation, in other words job number two was sweet profit. In fact job two would have always taken job one from break even to profitable job.

I hope I'm not being lumped in on this response.

1st off, ONE individual customer ISN'T paying for my tractor. As a group, they contribute to my income, but no one person makes or breaks me. They aren't doing me a favor by contracting me to mow, I'm not doing them a favor. It's strictly business. I do the work, they write the check. We both do something in return for the other's actions.

I read everyone elses responses and got the same basic impression. Just because a guy tries to "get a deal" doesn't mean he's in debt up to his eyeballs. It doesn't make him any less of a man. Maybe he's just a "haggler". I've done it, we've all done it.

My position is, I'm NOT a haggler with regards to my work. I quote a price. I get that price or someone else gets the job. No hidden agenda, no hard feelings towards the potential customer. I simply refuse to cave in when someone tries to talk me down. My price was fair and reasonable to begin with. No need to lower it.

If I was finishing up one job and was approached by a neighbor about doing a second job at a reduced rate, I'd be more concerned with the FIRST customer, who's already given me work finding out I did someone elses job at a lower rate. Why is customer #1 paying full cost while #2 gets a break? Bad karma. Poor business practice. Everyone pays the same. Each customer is given the same courtesy.

I don't believe in over-charging. Likewise, I don't believe in discounting work. I don't think any less of a person for TRYING to get a better price. They already got that when they got my ORIGINAL quote, more'n likely.

The issue we're discussing makes me overjoyed that 75% of our mowing business is done for one client, who never questions my prices.

 

[familyman]

I've met many like him, and the ones with money sometimes got rich because they like to win power games. Makes him better than you, he kept some of his cash, you need him, and after all you're just a worker. No suit and tie, no Coach leather, no beemer (taht he's aware of) and you're definitely gouging him because you can see he's got bucks, right? He's got to be better than you somehow, and overtly or covertly that's his attitude about all his dealings, at all levels of life. What a shame. Just walk away. Getting paid could be a headache, and he's going to scrutinize and complain regularly. There are alot of "real" people in the world, I'd rather deal with them.

 

[LoneCowboy]

My position is, I'm NOT a haggler with regards to my work. I quote a price. I get that price or someone else gets the job. No hidden agenda, no hard feelings towards the potential customer. I simply refuse to cave in when someone tries to talk me down. My price was fair and reasonable to begin with. No need to lower it.

Exactly
I'd already cut him a deal, I'm not going down again.
Forget it, while the money would have been nice, it had been a long day, we were already working on sunday (and BTW, our anniversary) and you know, I don't need the hassles.
It was a game, maybe we both lost, but he still needs his grass/weeds cut.

 

[sandman2234]

Good answer LoneCowboy.
Let someone else make a special trip over there to mow the weeds at a price probably less than your $400 and see if they make any money at it.
Happy Aniversary, hope you and the Mrs. got to enjoy some of it.
David from jax

 

[joe48]

Hi All,

First my comment on the thread, I had a sales manager who told me the best customers are always the ones that you make the most profit off of, the worst ones nickle /dime you down to nothing and then are a PITA. The good customer gives you referrals and brings his friends and family to you. They will bring their cars to you for service etc, and when its time to trade they come to you. And he was right, this applies for cars , industrial equipt, and all types of service work.

NOW the CATCH , you have to earn that customers trust and loyalty, you must be honest, fair and reasonable in your pricing, provide good service and MOST important , exceptional value for his dollar. Then he will happily pay more for your services.

But when its your time, your expertise and knowledge, and just plain old sweat you can't sell yourself short. There has to be a line drawn that you won't cross. In otherwords what are YOU WORTH.

 

[joe48]

Now my question to all of you guys around the country that are doing side work, a little survey what do you charge for :
(by the hour or by the acre and what size machine )

Bush hogging:
pastuer:
brushy areas:

Backhoe work;

Rototilling:

Grading for landscape:

Post hole digger: