the new "old" john deere

[deerefan]

the new \"old\" john deere

interesting observation....this may cause some discussion...while shopping for tractors, i noticed that tractors are not what they used to be-this is both good and bad. I looked at several John Deere models, such as the 790, 990 and 5103. I looked at some other models that blew my mind. A 30 h.p. tractor, 4wd hydrostat for about $15000! In my opinion, tractors are getting away from what a real tractor should be....simple and cheap. I narrowed my choices down to 2 tractors--the 990 and the 5103. Both 2wd models. I liked these tractor because they were simple and still had the cosmetics and style of yesterday's tractor. Maybe it is my simple mind, I just feel some of these tractors are getting to fancy and pricey. I chose the 5103 because it closely resembled what I am used to and it also had the best bang for the buck...it looks and acts like a tractor should. Some of these compact tractors are so "car-like" it is getting difficult to differentiate. Ok, so now I am rambling but my point is this--lets keep tractors simple enough the average joe like myself can operate and work on them. I posted this in the John Deere forum b/c it was the brand I analyzed and purchased. My opinion does apply to all tractor brands. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[beenthere]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

And "let's keep tractors simple enough" is what Deere did for you. And you are happy that they did. And I am glad you are happy /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

However, the big market is the 'car style' (if you want to call them that) CUT's that are hydrostat tranny and much more manueverable and easier to drive (run). So most tractor manufacturers (IMO) are responding to the market demands and they want their share of that market for a lot of "average Joe's".

I'll take my CUT with 4wd anyday over the gear tractor (Deere 2cyl 420 Utility) I use to have. I am happy too. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I am assumming that you are not implying that becuase you like the 'old' simpler style, that the manufacturers should make 'em all that way /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[deerefan]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

no what i am saying is i have no problem with the new CUTs, i think they are great, especially in tight spots...i probably wasn't real clear, i just would like to see manufacturers keep the technology and tractors simple enough so we can still work on them. For instance, I also own an 8N which my father and I rebuilt the engine, hydraulics and replaced some body panel in about a week for under 2 grand. Please do not misunderstand, I am not knocking the CUT, just wishing they were a little more affordable and easier to work on. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[hobbyfarm]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ...keep tractors simple enough the average joe....)</font>

deerefan,
I know what you're talking about. It's called bells & whistles by some folk, and feature bloat by other folks.
It's not just tractors.
A while back I went looking at wallyworld for a simple hot plate, couldn't find one that did not have digital this & that. All I wanted was a dial - 0=cold/off / 9=HOT. Simple - none to be had.
Same thing shopping for pickups - want no frills, I can guarantee it won't be on the dealer's lot.

If this keeps up, we'll have all sorts of junk being able to defy gravity and everything else just because "it's built in the chip". /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[FordTruckGuy]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

Totally agree with Mr. DeereFan; that's why I bought the 790. Simplicity is parsimony, as in Ockham's razor.

Not only that -- the simple, older design tractors just look better.

 

[deerefan]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

that is exactly my point...lets keep things simple, less stuff to break, less money out of pocket. The 5103 fits this to a "t" as does the 990--i did not look to closely at the 790, it was a little to small for what i needed, i am guessing it is the same as far as simplicity also. There is nothing wrong with the new stuff. I just prefer a simple tractor and I like the traditional tractor look.

 

[unreconstructed]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

Roger that, Deerefan. Just bot a 5203. No bells and whistles. My wife has to start the vcr and all that because I hate all the
"goodies". Just want to turn it on, not get an engineering degree. Sure hated the thought of getting her to show me how to operate my tractor. (just kidding, but you get my point).

I inherited my Dad's old 1850 Oliver--1966 model I believe. The 5203 and the old Oliver have the same European style fenders, gear tranny, and all that. As a contrast, he also had a 1086 International with hydrostatic tranny which is all locked up. Bet which one of the old tractors I'll be able to get back in working order the easiest and cheapest? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Cheers and keep your powder dry. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[deerefan]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

my thoughts exactly

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

I am perfectly glad you all like yours. And don't worry about getting my 4310! I like it just the way it is! And I have worked on it...

 

[BloomingtonMike]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

All the talk about simplicity this and ease of use that are why we have advances in technology and tractors are not any different. Also why new users that have never owned a tractor can now buy them and use them safely.

The really old easy to use tractors use to require you to cut wood to make a rim and used to run on steam. Why have you all started buying those new tractors with them new fangled metal rims and using that space age diesel fuel??? Advancement in materials and technology - embrace it.

There is always the mule and plow.

 

[beenthere]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

I remember, and liked, the older Model A and G Deere's, especially the hand clutch. Could hop on the drawbar, hang on to the seat, and shove the clutch ahead and away you'd go. As moving, swing up into the seat and shove the throttle ahead. Stand up to drive when tired of sitting, as the platform and steering wheel allowed for plenty of room. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif No ROPS, no seatbelt, no fenders, and narrow front ends. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
No question I did like them. Also liked the 8N Ford and the Fergusons, as well as the Case, the Oliver, the Massey Harris, the Farmall's, and the Graham Bradley my Uncle had. Can't forget the hand clutch system on the Allis Chalmers either, as it was real smooooth. Never had a chance to drive a Minneapolis Moline.
Then came the big farm tractors, with 200 to 300 HP, and the big equipment pulled behind, with Cabs and A/C for comfort. Even a few trips around the field in the big 8 row corn picking combine running at 7.5 mph down through the fields and not dropping a kernel of corn. Real comfort compared to the two-row mounted picker on the old A John Deere with no power steering and sitting in a dust bowl while picking corn (but better than picking corn by hand, and trying to keep two ears in the air at all times, while the team kept moving the wagon along, only slowing down when they didn't hear the ears hitting the bang board anymore /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

Handled a few teams when I was a boy and helped with threshing crews bringing in oat bundles from the fields and throwing them carefully in the infeed end of the threshing machine. Lots of good memories and looking back, a wide variety of experiences.
But I really do enjoy my HST 4wd FEL tractor the best of any of them. But, I won't be overhauling it anytime soon either. Have had to find the wires for the rear utility lights, adjust the throttle friction disk, remove the hyd screen in the 3pt hydraulics, change the filters and the tranny oil, put fluid in the tires, replace the brittle overflow tubing for the radiator, and a few minor jobs with no problems.

 

[RoyJackson]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

I also prefer the simplicity of the 790.
There are less things to go wrong...I can do any of the maintenance or repairs I feel competent to do.

In 10-15 years, I've little doubt I can get the parts I'll need for my Deere....not so sure about the electronic "bells n' whistles" parts.

Of course, I'm 55...I guess we older guys yearn for simpler times...just a fact of getting older.

Of course, I do have all those "bells n' whistles" in my Explorer!

For those professional farmers and other users...any type of option or comfort item (cabs and AC) is a necessity. That cab is as much an office to them as my desk is to me. Those hours are their living.

 

[unreconstructed]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

Didn't mean to knock your technology--I think it is all great and am glad Deere has a choice for all of us to choose from.

Everything is a matter of degree--I love electricity and indoor plumbing and I love the internal combustion engine. Maybe I just associate the "simpler" machinery with my growing up years and my Dad whom I miss.

I think with technology, for those of us who aren't that interested in new gadgetry, we embrace what we like and leave what we don't. I still like a wood stock and a nice blue job, but don't care for the new plastic stocks and stainless steel on my guns for example.

Have a good one. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[deerefan]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

i see i started something here....i did not intend to offend anyone, just wanted to bring up a good point. It was just my preference. I feel the new technology is great and CUTs are AWESOME in tight spots, just hoping these tractors do not get too saavy to work on.

 

[unreconstructed]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

Hey Beenthere:

Missed the hand clutches but my first tractor to operate was a UB Minneapolis Moline. Daddy had it on LP, no power steering, no shade, was a tricyle. Started when I was 9. He put a rope around it and said, "If you start to fall off, grab hold of the rope". Guess that would have got him locked up these days, but he grew up a lot harder than a tractor with no power steering. Later on, in 1960, he bought an M-5 Moline. Had power steering and an ampli-torque which gave it an extra speed in each of the five gears. A real cadillac compared to the old UB. Wish he had kept the UB--a real smoothy it was unless one lost control of the steering wheel bouncing over the beds. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Oh yeah, the M-5 ran on LP too.

The 1850 Oliver was next--his first diesel--I am planning to restore it as I get time and money. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The 1086 International was his first one with hydro and cab with air conditioning. My oldest boy rode many a round with Daddy in that one--he missed the fun with the UB in that hot West Texas sun.

Enough of my blather.
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[755inNY]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

<font color="blue"> Some of these compact tractors are so "car-like" it is getting difficult to differentiate.</font>

Same thing has happed to pick-up trucks.

 

[andrewj]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

Deerefan, I'm with you. 5103. when these guys are replacing their sillynoids, gizmahoos, whirlybys, gazmocentrifiers, hydro-aromafiers, neato-mometers, and that fancygrabazzy beneather their seat, you and me will still be on our gear tractors showing our grandkids how to use them.

 

[beenthere]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( ..i see i started something here....i did not intend to offend anyone, )</font>

And I don't think anyone was offended, but just enjoyed the discussion. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
You did seem to imply that only the 'simpler' tractors needed to be manufactured. That is where we might agree to disagree. Most seem to be saying, "good that you can buy the simple ones you like, and good that others can buy the 'less-simple' ones that they like". No more, no less. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Enjoy /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[beenthere]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

Seems I recall that some early Minny's had the hand clutch too, but a bit different from the Deere models. As a kid of 9, I learned to drive the A JD and had to stand up to operate the hand clutch (while pulling a wagon and picking up bales of hay) and the brakes at the same time as steering. Great fun for a 9 year old. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[hobbyfarm]

Re: the new \"old\" john deere

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Some of these compact tractors are so "car-like" it is getting difficult to differentiate.

Same thing has happed to pick-up trucks. )</font>

Remember the plain painted metal dash? They all had a metal dash. Not any more. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Now, everything's all fluffy and junk.
Look how they've ruined the venerable Jeep. Who the heck NEEDS an airbag in an off-road vehicle?
Sometimes progress(?) stinks.