The Objective Superiority of JD in 32-46 HP

[cowboydoc]

I'm sold on the capability of the jd loader Glenn. That 4600 of mine lifts a 1600 lb. and up roundbale with forks on the front with ease. Before we got rained out today I put a roundbale on the back and lifted up 35 sheets of 20 foot steel which had to weigh that or more to the full lift capacity to finish the second tier of the barn above the doors. Didn't have any problem at all going right up. Not to say that the others wouldn't do this but haven't seen any do it.

 

[cowboydoc]

Radman,
Have to disagree about the engine noise but hey that's subjective so won't go there. I agree with you on the skidsteer design but we're talking about concrete facts not what-if's. I threw away all the kubota lit. so have to take your word on the hoes, but they certainly ARE NOT more expensive than off brands. I couldn't touch a Woods backhoe for less than $7500, JD best price was $6800 although mine was alot less but that doesn't count. I looked at the Kelley's and I believe American or something like that. They were all right at JD's price or above and I don't think they were as good of quality as deere and certainly not nearly as easy to take off and put on.

The weight issue though has to do with not with what you can do with the unit but how well made the components are. I've talked to a number of JD engineers and they are very proud of the fact that they use the highest quality and amount of steel in their tractors which translates to longer longevity and increased weights so it certainly is a factor.
Completely agree on the seats as that is certainly subjective and on the loaders. They all use different capcities so it makes it tough to compare them.

 

[glennmac]

Radman,

I think noise is objective (although we all perceive noise subjectively). Now, I did not put a decibel meter on the tractors, but it was my clear impression that the JD's were noisier than the Kubota's. (Not enough time on NH's to compare.) Deeres also sounder harsher and felt shakier to me, although that is getting more subjective.

I say noise is an objective argument against JD.

 

[GrantMO]

Glenn,

I agree that objectively the JD models seem to outperform the others in the categories you mentioned.
To me, the differences in hydraulics, loader capacity, backhoe, MMM aren't great enough to sway me one way or the other. More options are good as are greater ease to hook up buckets and loaders but getting off a tractor only 2 times is nothing compared to what I do now to hook up anything. The comfort, size and layout of the operator station make up a general feel for each tractor and combine to become a subjective quality.
Some other thoughts:
1 Even thought the TCs do look a little like big riding mowers, objectively you have more room to see what's in front of you.
2 The hood panels on the Kubota are metal instead of fiberglass like on the NH. Is JD also metal?
3 JD dealers are everywhere you turn around, except it seems, within 15 miles of here. It seems like there are more JD dealers to take your tractor to if you moved.
4 You always hear about the much higher resale value of JD but how can anyone know that if I keep my tractor for 25 years?
5 Which side the brake pedals are on? I can't remember how the Kubota and NH are arranged.


All in all, I can't say I'd buy any of them based on any of the objective differences above. They're all great tractors. For me it all comes down to subjective ideas on which tractor I like better and of course, price and dealer, which we won't talk about. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[radman]

Glenmac:

Never have I seen such rapid responses to a post! Tractor owners across the nation are furiously pounding on their keyboards. All three makes are good tractors and this debate could continue forever - and maybe it will. It is the same debate as Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge. Ford clearly the best - only joking. Each model has strengths and weakness, some are real and some percieved. A strong point of a company may not be important to someone who does not need or use that attribute. (ie. belly mower- I use a 3pt mount) Remember for most of us this is a game of "boys and their toys".

 

[glennmac]

I agree that we ultimately may buy because of subjective factors. But we should have an understanding of what the objective facts are to the extent we can. Then it becomes a matter of how much weight to give to a given objective factor--how important is it. It may be, for example, that a given tractor's backhoe has more dipperstick force than another's, but I simply may not care about that fact. But to someone else, that datum may be so significant that it would swing the buying decision. Thus we must endeavour to pierce through hype and ignorance, and document for ourselves and posterity the objective differences between tractors. I think Jefferson said that.

 

[glennmac]

Among other things, Grant raises a crucial objective fact: what the tractor is made of. The JD hood and fenders are some sort of composite plastic. Kubota is metal. I think NH is some combination of metal and plastic. Someone please advise.

Now metal and plastic have different objective characteristics that have been debated (inconclusively) elsewhere. How you react to these different substances may be overwhelming subjective. But here is an objective fact: when you grab the handle on a JD plastic fender and swing your overweight middle-aged carcass onto the operator platform, the JD fender noticably gives and bows outward. The metal Kubota fender does not.

How important is that fact to you?



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by glennmac on 07/08/01 08:42 PM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[radman]

Cowboydoc:

Like you I am not a brand loyalist. I try to obtain the best deal/product for the money. $$$ often determine our choices of equipment. When looking for a compact last year I was initially partial to JD. However, JD offered me $2000 for trade in on 1984 Kubota B7100 MFWD with 850 hrs, loader and box blade. After I stopped laughing, I asked for price of 4300 HST without trade in. Obviously, he didn't want my kubota. Conversely, Kubota dealer offered me $7500 trade in for a new Kubota 3710 GST with 50hrs including loader. I thought the new Kubota price was good even without the trade in. I originally bought the B7100 2 years earlier for $5700. Didn't have to do a lot of math to accept that deal.

 

[radman]

Glenmac:

"Thus we must endeavour to peirce through the hype and ingnorance, and document for ourselves the posterity and the objective differences between tractors" - Jefferson

If that was said by President Thomas Jefferson, I didn't know he had a tractor? I didn't think they had tractors in the late 1700's - early 1800's? Only kidding. Your point is well taken, and I agree.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>...I didn't think they had tractors in the late 1700's - early 1800's? ...</font color=blue>

I bet Mr. John Deere from Rutland, Vermont never ever... thought about tractors in the 1800's either... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

But, he would probably enjoy this debate though...