The "Plasma Plunge" - Miller vs Thermal Dynamics

[Spudland_Dave]

So I'm inching towards pulling the trigger on a plasma....I'm still debating on weather or not its even worth it to me, but I'm at least wanting to finalize what I want if I do decide to go ahead.

What I'm looking at...

Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 vs Miller Spectrum 875

I was sold on the TD 52 for quite a while...seen one in action at a trade show, all searches on the interwebs say its a nice machine, but all people involved in industry that I've talked thru run Millers, guy who does alot of fab work for me said the Miller is the way to go, they have a TD on their Plasma Table and while its good he says "its not a miller".... Is the TD just a "high end home tinkerer" machine? I guess I'm just feeling like the TD is too good to be true.. Typically when things are too good to be true, they usually are....

 

[swines]

Did he tell you why he likes Miller? Lots of people get stuck on what they've bought as being best, because if they don't want to think they haven't spent their money wisely.

Thermadyne has been making plasma cutters since 1957. I have an acquaintance who sells Thermadyne equipment in Indiana, and most of his sales are to large, commercial fabrication facilities. I'd buy the one that is easiest to get supplies locally.

I have an ESAB plasma cutter and the local welding shop that used to stock ESAB equipment was purchased by Airgas who now only stocks Miller. When I went in to get ESAB electrodes they had to order them, so I had to wait a week to get the parts.


Either one of them is going to cut metal.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Did he tell you why he likes Miller? Lots of people get stuck on what they've bought as being best, because if they don't want to think they haven't spent their money wisely.

The fab shop I use now boiled it down like this..they have both..They used to have all TD but now just have TD on the table.

Miller = Better Cut Quality
TD = Cheap as heck Consumables.

What tears me up is I read many accounts online and heard the same story at the trade show on how the TD Torch is the best...As for cut quality on the parts I get from them...the hand cut (miller) pieces DO look better.

Yeah they both cut metal, but the TD is cheaper with higher specs... If the TD is as good as they say it is, its a no brainer.

Another piece of the puzzle is that I'm a complete noob when it comes to plasma...when I wanted a welder it was easy shopping because I knew what I needed & wanted.

 

[Duckklr69]

You may want to consider Hypertherm also, the make great cutters.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

I have an older Thermodyne - the cut is not as clean as either of the machines you are looking at - but so much easier and better than OA.

So, the question you have to ask is "how clean of a cut do you really need?"

 

[Stimw]

I have a Miller Spectrum 625 that I have had for about 6 years and I am very happy with it. I have cut up to 3/4" which is really it's outer limit. The best thing is you push the button and cut, no preheating. There is less warpage because it cuts faster. I will use a 2 X 4 for a straight edge.
I have not used my O/A torch to cut since I got the 625, only for heating now.
What ever unit you get you must have clean dry air. Moisture burns up the tips.

 

[yomax4]

TD has a 4yr Bumper to Bumper Warranty. Optional lead extensions, They make their Own Machine. ( Miller uses Old Technology Hypertherm Torch ) TD is in it's 53rd year....No Way does The Spectrum Cut Better that the TD. What it comes down to is How many Amps for how much money and what is the warranty. You can get a Cutmaster 52 = 60 amps for $1500. How much is Millers 60 amp? $2100? Miller just quit selling units over 60 amps. Why?
All the Name brand Plasmas are good, Draw the line on Power, Price and Warranty. If you pay $2000 for a $1500 plasma its your option. :thumbsup:

 

[Jim in ICT]

I've sold all three, and I own a Hypertherm.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Oops! Make that all four. Still like the Hypertherm best.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Thanks for the words guys...I've settled on a unit....IF/When I buy one, it will be the TD Cutmaster 52.....
Chances are I'll buy one this fall...if all goes according to plan I'll build my shop this summer and I'll be able to really use one this winter. I have a project right now that would benefit greatly by me having a plasma, but the shop I deal with is slow these days so for the price of just the materials they are doing all my fab work. Kinda nice actually to drop off a few cardboard templates in the morning and by 2:00 pick up all the finished pieces, ready to weld. 3 months ago I would have bought the plasma, now I debate if its even financially worth it....so unless they get really busy or triple their prices, I'm gonna hold off.

The Hyperthem might be a great unit, but I've never seen one in real life. Neither has my dad even after 32 years of service as a Millwright...That just doesnt sit right with me, which is why the options came down to the TD & Miller.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Hypertherm's a big outfit. Build nothing but plasma cutters, no welders or other equipment. Heavy into automated plasma power sources. They're located out of Hanover, NH, up your way. Their history parallels TD with common roots. If you look at the Miller plasma torches, you'll notice how closely they resemble the Hypertherm torches.....HMMMMM.
Are you buying over the internet, or through a distributor? Not trying to talk you out of the TD Cutmaster, but since you've got time, find a distributor in your area that offers both and go in and compare. They may have a unit that you might be able to demo.

 

[travis potter]

When I worked for a co. they had all miller welders and started to buy a miller plasma cuter I talked them into renting one and then had the Hypertherm rep bring out one of his cutters. In side by side cuts the Hypertherm was much better. I now have a Hyertherm that I use it works on 110 volts or 220 volts. I use half power on 110 and full on220. It works out real good when you are in the field and don't have 220.

 

[lostcause]

i've been looking into a plasma cutter myself, and i had been considering the miller 625. miller is sold by multiple local shops, so that kind of put it in front. i've now looked at the hypertherm 45, and for the same money, it's looking maybe a little better. though, i saw something on the hypertherm site that i did not see on either miller or thermal dynamics specs:

mechanized pierce thickness. along with a cutter, i'm looking at building a cnc table to use a hand held torch. the units i am looking at are going to be able to cut somewhere between 5/8 to 1 inch material, but until i hit the hypertherm site, i had never thought about a reduced capacity for an internal cut. it seems that if you start at an edge, you can cut quite thick - 1" on the hypertherm 45, but to make a hole or other internal cut, the maximum thickness you can cut is 3/8 inch.

no other site noted this limitation (that i could find). have any of you had experience with this or any other brands? and could you post your thoughts on pierce thickness with any of the brands/models.

thanks.

 

[dcyrilc]

i've been looking into a plasma cutter myself, and i had been considering the miller 625. miller is sold by multiple local shops, so that kind of put it in front. i've now looked at the hypertherm 45, and for the same money, it's looking maybe a little better. though, i saw something on the hypertherm site that i did not see on either miller or thermal dynamics specs:

mechanized pierce thickness. along with a cutter, i'm looking at building a cnc table to use a hand held torch. the units i am looking at are going to be able to cut somewhere between 5/8 to 1 inch material, but until i hit the hypertherm site, i had never thought about a reduced capacity for an internal cut. it seems that if you start at an edge, you can cut quite thick - 1" on the hypertherm 45, but to make a hole or other internal cut, the maximum thickness you can cut is 3/8 inch.

no other site noted this limitation (that i could find). have any of you had experience with this or any other brands? and could you post your thoughts on pierce thickness with any of the brands/models.

thanks.

I don't know the answer to your question, but if you need an edge for the cutting thickness, you could always drill a hole in the material you are going to cut to give you an internal edge to start from.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Lostcause--- Make sure whatever you buy is machine compatible and will be able to receive "start - stop" commands from the computer. Makes it a bunch easier than having to trigger the plasma manually.

 

[lostcause]

I don't know the answer to your question, but if you need an edge for the cutting thickness, you could always drill a hole in the material you are going to cut to give you an internal edge to start from.

though that would work, it defeats a lot of the benefit of a cnc system. generally all of your cuts are going to originate at an interior point on the plate. especially if you were going to cut out 10 or more pieces at once, you would use your software to nest the pieces to make the most use of the plate, so you wouldn't really be able to (or want to) create an entry point ahead of time for each piece to cut.

Lostcause--- Make sure whatever you buy is machine compatible and will be able to receive "start - stop" commands from the computer. Makes it a bunch easier than having to trigger the plasma manually.

it's good that you mentioned this. i have wondered how that works with a portable plasma system. i'm nowhere near making a purchase yet, so it's not something i would have bought without considering, but i never really looked hard yet. any demos/pictures with portable torches never show this. i'm going to hazard a guess that its an optional interface you have to purchase (for the machines that even allow it) thanks for reminding me though. it may make me rule out certain machines immediately.

 

[Redneck in training]

i've been looking into a plasma cutter myself, and i had been considering the miller 625. miller is sold by multiple local shops, so that kind of put it in front. i've now looked at the hypertherm 45, and for the same money, it's looking maybe a little better. though, i saw something on the hypertherm site that i did not see on either miller or thermal dynamics specs:

mechanized pierce thickness. along with a cutter, i'm looking at building a cnc table to use a hand held torch. the units i am looking at are going to be able to cut somewhere between 5/8 to 1 inch material, but until i hit the hypertherm site, i had never thought about a reduced capacity for an internal cut. it seems that if you start at an edge, you can cut quite thick - 1" on the hypertherm 45, but to make a hole or other internal cut, the maximum thickness you can cut is 3/8 inch.

no other site noted this limitation (that i could find). have any of you had experience with this or any other brands? and could you post your thoughts on pierce thickness with any of the brands/models.

thanks.

2x2 CNC plasma cutter, portable CNC cutting system designed to sit on top of the material to be cut for easy cutting in the shop, garage, or in the field

Here is one CNC for reasonable money.

 

[Jim in ICT]

Lostcause--- Make sure that you know which cutting speeds are being discussed. Normally, the IPM are advertised with a hand torch and not machine speeds, which normally are faster. It takes a big power unit to cut thick material with mechanized cutting. Otherwise, cut quality suffers.
Ever notice how while mowing grass, your cut quality sucks when you don't slow down for turns? Same thing with mech. plasma if the cutting speed isn't slowed down for curves and circles. There's a lot to consider.

 

[yomax4]

Normally, Pierce is 1/2 of Actual cut capacity. Buyer Beware of the Hyperthem 45 cutting 1" on a Table. It would be at only a few inches per minute with considerable Curf. If you want to cut 1" buy an 80amp machine. If you want to cut 1/2", Buy a 60 amp. 45 amps on a CNC Table will only be capable of 3/8" at production speeds. I'm unsure where some of these posts get their info and why anyone would consider a 45 amp Plasma for production cutting. Go to a few Distributor Open Houses and cut with all of the Brands. Looking up BS ads on the internet are not advised and you will be sorry if you don't try the best units on the market. Hypertherm, Thermal Dynamics, ESAB and Miller to a certain extent. If you are willing to pay Miller prices, You would be better off with a Hypertherm. After all, The Miller Torch is a 10 yr old Hypertherm torch. All Things Considered, TD all the way.

 

[dcyrilc]

though that would work, it defeats a lot of the benefit of a cnc system. generally all of your cuts are going to originate at an interior point on the plate. especially if you were going to cut out 10 or more pieces at once, you would use your software to nest the pieces to make the most use of the plate, so you wouldn't really be able to (or want to) create an entry point ahead of time for each piece to cut.

I missed that you were looking at CNC.