The ROPS Police - fact or fiction?

[keeney]

A warranty is only a promise. Apparently in America, lawyers have decided that any promise can be backed out of at will by a large corporation and then settle the matter in court if the other side (little guy) takes it that far.

What needs to happen is some very large punitive awards because these guys are defrauding people when they promise a warranty and don't intend to fairly honor it.

My own personal example is a Dodge truck I owned for 16 years. When I went to sell it, I noticed in the paperwork, that apparently I had purchased a lifetime rust-proofing warranty for several hundred dollars (I was less wise back then). Of course the tuck was rusty after 16 years on MN salted roads. I inquired about having the tailgate replaced and repainted and they denied it because of a little technicality spelled out in the documents they sent me AFTER the deal was done. The warranty was void because I had neglected my obligation to have the truck insepected once a year after the first 100,000 miles or 7 years. Of course, I bet they have virtually NEVER paid on one of these because nobody is going to remember seven years later to start taking the truck in for inspections. It was difficult to even get them to acknowledge they sold it to me in the first place (the original dealer had since gone out of business, no records at Chrysler headquarters, etc).

It wasn't worth the hassle at that point to fight it because the rust only detracted a couple hundred from the market value because the truck was already so old. Plus I was already in the process of selling it and didn't want to hold up that process. It probably would have taken a year to take them to court, and then they would have tried to "settle" for the few hundred in market value, and punitive damages would be even more expensive and time consuming to proove.

So, I would agree that there is always some risk that the manufacturer will back out of a warranty promise. If they decide to be dishonest, there is nothing to do but take them to court. It likely won't be worth it. Any little thing they can use an excuse will only make it harder to prevail.

The liability issue is of course far more serious. If somebody gets hurt after modifying the safety equipment, then of course the manufacturer is going to try and spread some of the blame. However, they loose a lot of these kind of cases no matter how stupid the user was or the ill-advised the modification. Its hard for a jury to ignore a grieving family in favor of a large corporation, especially if it was a child that was hurt or killed.

Bottom line - the modified ROPS will only matter if somebody gets hurt and they or their survivors feel that the manufacturer or modifier should be liable for the injury and thus the modification causes you to share some of the blame and liability.

If nobody ever gets hurt on the tractor, it won't matter.

If you get hurt due to a problem with the ROPs and your family doesn't plan to sue because they are reasonable and understand the manufacturer didn't really cause the accident, it won't matter.

If you sell the tractor and somebody else gets hurt due to a problem remotely related to the ROPs, but they (or their survivors) magically decide not to sue you, it won't matter.

- Rick

 

[uhmgawa]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( My own personal example is a Dodge truck I owned for 16 years. When I went to sell it, I noticed in the paperwork, that apparently I had purchased a lifetime rust-proofing warranty for several hundred dollars (I was less wise back then). Of course the tuck was rusty after 16 years on MN salted roads. I inquired about having the tailgate replaced and repainted and they denied it because of a little technicality spelled out in the documents they sent me AFTER the deal was done. The warranty was void because I had neglected my obligation to have the truck insepected once a year after the first 100,000 miles or 7 years. Of course, I bet they have virtually NEVER paid on one of these because nobody is going to remember seven years later to start taking the truck in for inspections. It was difficult to even get them to acknowledge they sold it to me in the first place (the original dealer had since gone out of business, no records at Chrysler headquarters, etc).)</font>

Had a similar situation with an '86 Toyota pickup many
moons ago. Took the rustproofing option from the dealer
when the vehicle was purchased at somewhere around $250.

Three years later when the characteristic rust sprung up
in the bed panel joints I filed a claim. The rustproofing
rep said that was due to a manufacturer defect and wasn't
covered by them. I took this information back to the
dealer who was infuriated their "business partner" would
make such a statement against them. So after tossing that
spark into the proverbial vat of gasoline, I left those two
to slug it out between themselves.

A refund check for the full rustproofing cost was received
from the rustproofing company a few weeks later.

 

[kenmac]

There isn't many companies, dealers , etc; that you can sue these's days if something goes wrong or if warranty claims are denied. You go to arbitration & fight it out where you pay a portion & they pay a portion . I just bought 2 new ATV'S , just when I thought I was through signing papers,I was given an arbitration clause to sign. No sign no buy . Not just that dealer ,but all in my area

 

[kenmac]

What if you fab. a bracket to mount the lights on & clamp the light brackets around the ROPS with a U - bolt ? Anyone see where this would be a problem ?

 

[cowboydoc]

There isn't a problem but if you do take it in for service Deere will write out a warning letter to replace the ROPS because of safety. I did this on my 4600. When they were out to replace a seal the mechanic put it in the write-up that the ROPS had been modified. He advised replacing the ROPS. Two weeks later I got a letter from Deere saying the same thing.

Funny history on the ROPS. This same mechanic is the guy that developed the ROPS at his dad's dealership in South Dakota. They basically gave the idea to Deere.

 

[HGM]

We're talking about two different things here guys. Saftey and functionality. If the ROPS are modified, drilled, clamped, cut off, etc.... they cannot deny the waranty on the engine.

It would be a saftey issue, they would be crazy not to note it on your ticket. In this day and age, if there was a flaw in your ROPS and they didnt say anything, your family could sue them for not inspecting the saftey fetures of the product.

As for waranty being denied from modifications. If you chip your truck and sling a rod out of the block, who's fault is it? The MFG.....Dont think so.. Yes your waranty will be void for that issue. However, if your window motor quits working, it will still be covered because your modification has nothing to do with it.

The point Robison is making is something that we see in the service industry on a regular basis. Someone changes something and becomes upset if it effects the "promise" the MFG made that they will pay for repairs. If you modify something you become the waranty company on it. If the product is under MFG waranty and the modifications dont effect or cause a particular failure it should be covered. If you dealer tells you different, you should think about it.....

Just food for thought..

 

[kenmac]

Why would you have to replace the rops ? Just unbolt the u- bolt from around the ROPS.I'am not saying drill a hole in the ROPS .I see these brackets attatched in the same manner from the dealer on some modles to add a fiberglass top to the ROPS.

 

[kenmac]

I would take it to the dealer it was purchased from.I think (just my opinion) they (a dealer )will deny any warranty claim if they think the factory won't pay them enough to cover all cost . It would be up to you at that point to try & make them pay. To say the will or will not pay if you make mods. to the ROPS would be something to ask the dealer.

 

[MadReferee]

Lets not stray too far off the original topic.

The main point of the post was to ask the question "Why are people claiming that the entire warranty will be voided if you drill into the ROPS when the actual warranty documentation says nothing of the sort?".

The situation I described is hypothetical. It's the scare tactics I am more worried about.

Has anyone been denied a warranty claim because a ROPS was drilled or modified? At most a dealer's stance should be as Cowboydoc indicated, make a written note of said modification and get on with the business of fixing the warranty claim.

This myth needs to be busted.

 

[keeney]

Arbitration = bad for buyer, good for seller.

Money is never defective (once payment is final), so the seller never has any complaints to arbitrate.

Financing is usually an agreement with a seperate company. Surprise, they can still sue you (or just reposses the equipment) if you stop making payments.

On the other side, there are lots of things that can be wrong with a car, tractor, house, etc, when you buy it, so the buyer almost always does not want to agree to arbitration since it typically limits their recourse and removes the threat of expnsive litigation.

If a dealer sprung that on me after the main deal was inked, I'd demand another 5% off the price. Not disclosing an important requirement like that up front is a pretty unfair business practice.

Also, if you do get involoved in arbitration:

A: Always object to any choice of arbitrar they present. Supply your own list that is checked out for conflict of interest. Try and make them deal with an arbitrar they have never used before. Even in a big city like Mpls where I live, I hear stories about how the corporate law firms all pick their pals (supposedly neutral, uninterested arbitrars) as favors to each other. Of course, the judges are much the same situation as well - the corporate lawyers are going to know these people and you will not.

B: This is America - you can always sue, agreement or no agreement (you might loose, but you can always file the suit). You can fight the original arbitration agreement itself. Especially if it was sprung on you after the other deal was already otherwise agreed, you claim that it was under duress, your lawyer never reviewed it, unfair and predatory business practice, blah, blah, blah.

C: You can still have a lawyer advise you and argue your case to the arbitrar.

D: Don't count on the warranty. they are just not worth that much anymore. Don't buy additional warranty they are typically overpriced, and you will get the same push back when you try and file a claim. Save your money and "self-insure" for any eventual problems.