The surprising truth about motor oils

[3RRL]

Hey John, how ya doing this morning? Indeed you're right again.</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Lastly - the point about maintaining air filters is a very good one. That said, I would stop short of calling it "THE life saver of a combustion engine". Just one of many.)</font>
I recall seeing a thread where the myth of needing to change the air filter frequently was addressed. I can't remember exactly where...
There was a link to an air filter vacuum gauge or something that tells you when the filter is getting clogged up. It went on to say that in most cases 50,000 miles was normal to change it because the filtering characteristic of the filter actually increased as it gathered up particles and that the air flow would still be sufficient for many more miles (than I) thought. Of course like anything else, that's personal preference again.
In my case I prefer to clean my air filter frequently and was surprised to see that article stating otherwise.
Maybe someone else who read it can remember where that was?

Lastly, the real life savers of engines are the people who use and maintain them. Regardless of what oils you use...don't abuse your equipment too much, keep a regular maintenance schedule by changing your oils and greasing and such. Look for wear areas and loose bolts...all that stuff that's mentioned in your manual. There's a reason it's in there, I presume. A little TLC goes a long way.

 

[5030]

<font color="blue"> What DO you guys think of pre-lubers? They sure do make a lot of sense to me, particularly since in addition to pre-lubing, they can also be run AFTER the engine is shut down to help cool it (and turbos), and they will also help maintain oil pressure under a variety of conditions where ordinarily it would have been temporarily lost.</font>

Well John, If it costs 25K to rebuild an engine in a D8, which, by the way has a 3406, that spun a bearing, your labor rate is through the roof. A complete rebuild, rods, mains, deck, shim plate, injectors, pump, line and counter bore, new liners, pistons, the whole shot would still be below 25K. A spun bearing is a pan drop, rod uncapped, shell replaced, 5 at the most, even if the techinician stops for a couple of McDees and charges them to the job. We do them every day, 6 days a week.

Pre-lubers have their place, at the drag strip and in industrial application where the engine is subjected to almost an immediate 100% load situation on cold start. In non-commercial and /or non race application I can't see the worth. You don't start your tractor, car, truck, etc. and then subject the engine to 100% load immediately, at least no sane person would. The post lube situation only applies to a turbocharged engine where the turbocharger's hot side bearings need to be cooled down before the loss of oil flow. That's because the stagnant oil sitting on the hot side of the housing (exhaust side) will become so hot it will actually combust in the housing, turn to sludge and destroy the bearing and ceramic seal (over time). This is not an immediate scenario however. Every owners manual I have ever read always cautions the operator to idle the engine for a few minutes prior to shutdown so that the oil on the exhaust side of the turbocharger can circulate and cool enough so as not to "coke" in the housing. A post lube system would negate that cool down period , but from the cost of the systems, it's way more economical from a cost standpoint to idle the engine and, by the way, newer electronically controlled fuel management systems on diesel engines have the post idle feature built right in. You begin the shutdown sequence and the engine computer keeps the engine idleing for a pre-determined amount of time from data extrapolated from various sensors on the engine itself like coolant temperature, ambient intake air temperature, oil temperature and other parameters.

My goood old "seat of the pants" Kubota M9's manual clearly states a post shutdown idle period for the sole purpose of cooling the turbocharger.

As a rule of thumb, I for one always idle all my engines for a minute or so upon shutdown, whether gas, propane or diesel, to allow the enternal temperatures to satbilize.

In all my trucking years, I have never lost or damaged an engine due to a lubrication failure and that's been literally millions and millions of miles. I'd wager that I have driven more miles and run engines more hours than probably 10 individuals would in the combined lifetimes. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A little common sense goes a long way. Problem is, a growing number of people lack it. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

If you use a paraffin based oil like Penzoil, Wolfs Head or Quaker State, if your oil pump fail's you won't spin a bearing or score a bore because of all the sludge inside keeps thing
greased" up real good. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[3RRL]

Hi Daryl.
Liked your post about pre-lubers and especially this part "</font><font color="blue" class="small">( A little common sense goes a long way. Problem is, a growing number of people lack it.)</font>

Common sense isn't very common. Also found out that insanity is inherited...you get it from your kids... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[HGM]

Daryl,
I completely agre.... The sad thing is that even though some things are in the owners manual, the lack of common sense also effects the desire of some to read it.......

Question about parafin based oils, didnt that go away several years ago due to QuakerStates troubles? I was under the impression they reformulated becaue of the sludge issues..

 

[5030]

Rob:

I see you are at "home", not in the woods.

Sorry about the color, I wanted to quote John and I can't seem to get the quote in "quotes" and the body in black. All I did was change the color to blue. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

Hiya Daryl ol' buddy ol' pal. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ouch, maybe you got me. Now that I think about it, 25 grand is a lot of money. Hang on, let me call Joe.

Ok, just got off the phone with him. Evidently, the last time the had a problem with the 3406 the total bill was right around $25,000 to have the engine replaced, soup to nuts (short block) by HO Penn or one of the other local diesel shops - he wasn't exactly sure who did it last. This time, they're going to yank it themselves and send it out, in order to maybe save a few bucks. Still a lot of hassle considering the likelihood that they could have avoided the whole mess by using synthetics in the first place. Am I positive that the engine would have started and run just fine at 5 below with synthetics in it? Nope. Would I bet my lunch money on it? Yep.

On the pre-luber: I still think they have their place on any engine, turbo or non-turbo, whether it's found on a drag-strip or a garden plot. The idea just makes too sense to be discounted. I don't care how many millions of miles an engine will go without one. It keeps coming down to long-term economics. Will a pre-luber pay for itself, or not? My gut feeling is that yes, in the vast majority of cases, it will. With a pre-luber, each and every time you start your engine, every single lubricated part will have a nice, optimal oil film protecting it. How long does an engine have to sit before the oil film on any given part is no longer "optimal"? Good question. 5 minutes? An hour? 8 hours? 24 hours? 48 hours? A week? A month? 3 months? 6 months? If I told you I knew the answer, I'd be lying. Just curious, as usual. It's just that time after time, I keep hearing and reading that most engine wear occurs at start-up. With a pre-luber, it just seems to me that that wear would be greatly reduced. Add to that the fact that it would almost undoubtedly extend the life of turbo bearings and almost all other engine parts by cooling the engine down after shut-off, and it just sounds to me as if we've got a clear winner on our hands. As always, if I'm full of it, I want to be the first to know.

Opposing viewpoints are always welcome, and I mean that. As I've often said, the dispassionate exchange of ideas in the pursuit of truth is one of my favorite things, right behind, and very much related to, my desire to establish peace on earth in our time.

John

 

[HGM]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sorry about the color, I wanted to quote John and I can't seem to get the quote in "quotes" and the body in black. All I did was change the color to blue. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif )</font>

All I do is hit the quote button and add my comments underneath. It does the color selection for you.. Hope that helps. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[5030]

HGM:

I honestly don't know. I don't use Penzoil, Quaker or Wolfs. I did have a 350 Chevy years ago that was on a diet of Quaker before I bought it and upon removal of the valve covers (had a lifter noise), I could not find the valve train at all. It was completely encased in what appeared to be thick dark brown goo. Took three flushes with kerosene to cut it and the noise went away.

 

[5030]

John:

Pre-lubers on your chainsaws???? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif There is an engine that goes from start to WOT right away.

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> Feeling "blue" today Daryl? Maybe this thought will cheer you up: just think of how many more opportunities I'm going to give you, in the years to come, for you to "roast" me. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font>

And hey, I must be slipping. Even though one of my favorite self-thoughts is "What would Gandhi do?", I still do have remnants of ego left in this sorry collection of muscle, bones and neurons known as "John". From a purely egotistical standpoint, said sorry collection would like to point out that he thinks he has at least the standard issue of common sense, and maybe even a little bit on top of that. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Lately, I have developed a fondness for a little "theory" of mine that "the truth will hold together, but [baloney] won't." I sincerely hope that it can be said that most (and ideally all) of the things I have to say pass that test with flying colors. I do my best to choose my words very carefully, state as "fact" only those things that I "know" to be true, and make a careful distinction between what I "know" and what I don't know.

And when and if I am ever wrong, I hope I will be the first to admit it. Here's hoping I never have to! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

"John"