Theory of rear ballast?

[vtsnowedin]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19WZJsz9OGbuQU1oD0uQ8je0KtKVyyrur2_ocfLgmWDo/edit?usp=sharing

If that works, its a spreadsheed for that formula. No need to enter front/rear weights. Just enter total tractor weight then a percentage of that over the fronts

I can't get it to let me enter any numbers. Back to the clay tablets and the pointed stick.

 

[LD1]

I can't get it to let me enter any numbers. Back to the clay tablets and the pointed stick.

I have never used google docs until now. So I am not sure what I did wrong??? Forum wont let me upload an excel spreadsheet. I know others have used google, but I must have done something wrong to not allow editing.

 

[LD1]

try this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19WZJsz9OGbuQU1oD0uQ8je0KtKVyyrur2_ocfLgmWDo/edit?usp=sharing

 

[vtsnowedin]

The only thing that matters about how its bolted is where it shifts the COG of the loader as a unit.

Alot of backhoe loaders are a complete frame that is attached at the rear axle. That dont mean that the load, or anything in the loader bucket gets applied to the rear axle weight.

My money says that if you remove the loader and weigh the rear axle, then re-attach the loader and re-weight the rear axle, with the loader on the rear will weigh LESS. That means the entire weight of the loader arms and bucket + how ever much less the rear weighed is ALL added to the front.

I could be wrong, but I dont see any way you still have over 50% on the rear axle with the loader on. Even with ballast in the tires.

My last statics class was in 1975 and not only did I just barely pass it I am very rusty on the subject. If you look at the loader frame which has some inch plate in it and weighs 167 kg as a point load on the "beam" between the two axles and then slide it more toward the rear it would place more load on the rear and less on the front etc. being a third of the way back from the front x it will place two thirds of it's weight on the front X and 1/3d on the back X. The loader arms arch over the front X with their COG perhaps a foot in front of it and yes that would give you some rotational leverage that would take some weight off the rear tires and transfer it to the front X but as the lever arm is only about a foot and the arms weigh 317K just counting that load as all on the X seems close enough The bucket on the other hand weighing 204kg with a 1200mm moment arm probably balances out 119kg on the rear that has a 2050mm moment arm around the front X.
Just shows you why I'm glade I loaded the rears.

 

[vtsnowedin]

try this one https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19WZJsz9OGbuQU1oD0uQ8je0KtKVyyrur2_ocfLgmWDo/edit?usp=sharing

That one works. Thanks. It shows me I could shift 300KG from rear to front and still only need 713KG on the counterweight.

 

[LD1]

That one works. Thanks. It shows me I could shift 300KG from rear to front and still only need 713KG on the counterweight.

Do you find that 713kg (1500#) is enough for your loader? Just dont sound like enough to me. I would think that loader would have no issues lifting 1500 @ 1000mm back as well as the loaded tires and rear clear in the air.

Using my tractor and not factoring in loaded tires, and assuming 70/30 split (which is close to reality for me) I call for almost as much weight as you. With a much smaller tractor and weaker loader.

But they are different machines, and different lengths. IF 1500# will keep the rears firmly planted than thats all that matters.

 

[vtsnowedin]

Do you find that 713kg (1500#) is enough for your loader? Just dont sound like enough to me. I would think that loader would have no issues lifting 1500 @ 1000mm back as well as the loaded tires and rear clear in the air.

Using my tractor and not factoring in loaded tires, and assuming 70/30 split (which is close to reality for me) I call for almost as much weight as you. With a much smaller tractor and weaker loader.

But they are different machines, and different lengths. IF 1500# will keep the rears firmly planted than thats all that matters.

I haven't done much heavy loading as yet, that rock in the picture being the biggest thing I've pulled out and up. That day I had the frontier 72XX cutter on the back and that was enough. The only time I've lifted a rear tire I had the bucket wedged under a Chinese rock (the other end sticks up in Tiananmen square) and no amount of balance would help. Loading snow , fire wood and logs the beet juice is enough. Right now if I had to bale a lot of heavy stuff I'd put on my case two bottom plows and not try to over fill the bucket each bite.

 

[LD1]

The only time I've lifted a rear tire I had the bucket wedged under a Chinese rock (the other end sticks up in Tiananmen square) and no amount of balance would help.

sufficient ballast would keep the rear planted. Thats the point of ballast. If latched onto something you absolutely cannot lift you want to max out the relief on the loader and keep the back tires on the ground.

If the calculated 1600# or so that you figure does that for you, then yea its enough. But if latching onto that rock and you can still lift the back tires, it isnt enough.

 

[vtsnowedin]

sufficient ballast would keep the rear planted. Thats the point of ballast. If latched onto something you absolutely cannot lift you want to max out the relief on the loader and keep the back tires on the ground.

If the calculated 1600# or so that you figure does that for you, then yea its enough. But if latching onto that rock and you can still lift the back tires, it isnt enough.

Well I didn't have a counter weight on when I lifted a leg like a puppy. Perhaps the relief valve would kick in if fully ballasted but it would be a new experience for me.

 

[LD1]

Well I didn't have a counter weight on when I lifted a leg like a puppy. Perhaps the relief valve would kick in if fully ballasted but it would be a new experience for me.

You need to do more loader work :thumbsup:

Dig out some stumps or find some more big boulders, or lift some large logs with some forks. IF you are able to lift everything you try, you arent trying hard enough.

Only time I never find something I cannot lift is when I am sitting on my backhoe.