Thermal Lancing (yikes!!)

[stingray1]

Thanks to all for the education.

 

[mrmikey]

I prefer the ambient compressed air ones myself. No bottles to contend with, just the engine driven compressor. Pretty easy to build one actually and the lance rods are available at most LWS

Never seen those, I've only seen/used the ones that need oxygen. Any idea what keeps the fire going? I didn't think anything but pure Ox would keep a burn going like that.
I'v seen videos of them cutting casting risers using a long piece of 1/8 steel pipe thats heated to red and then fed oxygen thru it to keep it going but never just compressed air..............Mike

 

[gsganzer]

This video showed a good tip of first welding a slag deflector that also acted as the centering guide to help control the lance.

Thermal lance

 

[5030]

Never seen those, I've only seen/used the ones that need oxygen. Any idea what keeps the fire going? I didn't think anything but pure Ox would keep a burn going like that.
I'v seen videos of them cutting casting risers using a long piece of 1/8 steel pipe thats heated to red and then fed oxygen thru it to keep it going but never just compressed air..............Mike

The tubing is filled with phosphorus rods (just like a sparkler but bigger and longer) so just compressed air keeps the fire burning. We used a Joy engine driven screw copmpressor.

 

[5030]

With basic machine tools (engine lathe) and some off the shelf parts (pressure washer handgun) you can build one. Instead of high pressure water you valve the air. The burning rods aren't cheap and they go pretty quick.

 

[5030]

The one we used for cutting bolster plats was basically just a pipe with a WOG valve on the holding end and a collet to take the tube with the rods inside and the rods we used were 5 feet long. You could cut a bolster plate like hot butter. Very dirty though. We lit ours off with a gas axe, not a battery.

 

[mrmikey]

The tubing is filled with phosphorus rods (just like a sparkler but bigger and longer) ........

OK thanks, didn't know there was such an option. Depending on the price of the rods compared to regular lancing rods, it'd probably be cheaper, the oxygen drains fast using that method.......Mike

 

[5030]

Oxygen drains fast, tanks frost up and regulators freeze too.

 

[denchen]

What about a completely different thinking. What about freezing the whole lot, long enough to cool the pin in the centre, then hit the outside with some heat followed by some serious pressure or sod off hammers. Just thinking, it must have gone together, surely it should come apart.

 

[ray66v]

A pneumatic chipping hammer with a blunt bit, is good for removing king pins.

It's like a hand held jack hammer.

Check for a local pneumatic tool repair shop to see if they have a used one you can rent.

I would apply heat first.

For get the oil, it's not going to do a thing.

 

[dannoGT]

If you could see the pin in cross section, it is probably worn so bad that it has "steps" in it. Those steps or shoulders are locking the pin in place. We used to use a small pneumatic demolition hammer like the Ingersoll Rand A series chipping hammer with blunt end tool. You could tell the very first burp of that gun if the pin was going to move or not!

 

[Richard]

Good ideas!!!

Looking at the chipping hammer.... Might I presume that my little 20 (or was it 25) gallon Campbell Hausfield compressor would either be "totally insufficient" or, only sufficient for about 3 seconds of operation? (I presume this thing uses a decent amount of air??)

One thing I appreciate is, when I began this process...I really didn't have a "Plan B". Was forced to figure out a plan B, C, D... and was thinking that lancing it was my next (last) option....and now, I see this chipping hammer.

I'll have to find one.

I really want the lance thing to be my LAST option.

I appreciate all the ideas.

As for putting oil on it.... I'm going to have to agree as thus far, it's not done squat but waste the oil.

 

[5030]

Too bad you don't live closer, I have an Ingersoll-Rand jack hammer with assorted chisels and arbors but you little compressor won't run it. Takes 45 minimum CFM at 175 psi to operate it.

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[dannoGT]

The thing to watch for is that you don't hit the pin so hard that you mushroom the end of the pin ! Then you are creating a new problem! The other thing I would try is to get the pin to turn and start wiggling it. I would find a large hex nut, something that has an internal diameter similar to the outside diameter of the pin. Place the nut on top of the pin and weld the nut to the top of the pin. Make sure that you leave a gap under the nut in case your need to cut it off again. Don't worry about heating pin. Once you have nut welded to end of pin get a large (1 inch drive) impact gun and put socket on and try going back and forth. If you can get it to wiggle at all then keep spraying the penetrating oil on it. Are you sure that there isn't some kind of retaining pin going through that pin? Hidden under the paint?

 

[ray66v]

Yes, ideally if you have a 60 gallon tank, 1/2" hose and high volume couplings. You would have you enough oomph to do this job.

A 25 gallon tank, with the usual 3/8" hose and 1/4" couplings will greatly reduce the effectiveness. But, is not necessarily a deal breaker.

You could help yourself greatly by using a real short hose, in that case.

You may be able to borrow a short hose, and fittings with the chipper.

Industrial tools commonly have a "whip hose" attached to them.

If the chipper has a 3' to 6' whip on it, you can just plumb the end of it right into your compressor.

 

[airbiscuit]

The thing to watch for is that you don't hit the pin so hard that you mushroom the end of the pin ! Then you are creating a new problem! The other thing I would try is to get the pin to turn and start wiggling it. I would find a large hex nut, something that has an internal diameter similar to the outside diameter of the pin. Place the nut on top of the pin and weld the nut to the top of the pin. Make sure that you leave a gap under the nut in case your need to cut it off again. Don't worry about heating pin. Once you have nut welded to end of pin get a large (1 inch drive) impact gun and put socket on and try going back and forth. If you can get it to wiggle at all then keep spraying the penetrating oil on it. Are you sure that there isn't some kind of retaining pin going through that pin? Hidden under the paint?

Why not weld a pipe coupling slightly smaller than the OD of the pin onto the pin to introduce some heat and then put the jackhammer bit in the coupling and pound away.

 

[Richard]

The thing to watch for is that you don't hit the pin so hard that you mushroom the end of the pin ! Then you are creating a new problem! The other thing I would try is to get the pin to turn and start wiggling it. I would find a large hex nut, something that has an internal diameter similar to the outside diameter of the pin. Place the nut on top of the pin and weld the nut to the top of the pin. Make sure that you leave a gap under the nut in case your need to cut it off again. Don't worry about heating pin. Once you have nut welded to end of pin get a large (1 inch drive) impact gun and put socket on and try going back and forth. If you can get it to wiggle at all then keep spraying the penetrating oil on it. Are you sure that there isn't some kind of retaining pin going through that pin? Hidden under the paint?

There is a locking cotter pin. You can see it's hole/location in an above picture. It has been removed so the only thing holding this thing in is 35 years of oxidation I suppose.

We did take a steel bar, machine a hole in it to fit the diameter of the pin and welded it on. I was laying into it as best I could (one arm had rotator cuff surgery and the other arm was snapped in two near shoulder so my arm strength is about on par with a soaked noodle)

Anyhway, saw the lever move!!! Hit it again with more fervor.... moved some more!!! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS we are finally making progress as I know once I can get it to move in any direction, it's then "simply" a matter of doing enough wiggling to get it out.

Only problem is, the weld was breaking and the last time I hit it, the lever popped off.

Unfortunately, my brother in law came yesterday to pick up the welder. He's trying to sell it and had someone coming to his place to look at it / buy it.

My guy came over yesterday with part of his contraption. He had a piece of steel shaped a bit like "]" On one of the flat surfaces, he cut a hole where the pin would pass through. He's got a bottom part to it that I didn't see. This will end up being bolted together and we'll set a 30 ton bottle jack on the bottom part of the frame. Hopefully when we apply direct force to the pin, it will budge.

The TOP of the pin does have a slight mushroom to it. The bottom should be clean since I can't reach it to whack it with the sledge. I think however, it has some burrs on it from cutting that will need to be ground off prior to the jack.

I intend to take a picture of the process.....just in case it works.

If I end up trying to lance it off, there WILL be a camera taking pictures of that as it will be quite a show.

 

[denchen]

If you can get at both ends, a plate top and bottom, with a tube or washers for the pin to go, and a `stud` the other end to push, and as many threaded bars as you can get around, and you`ll really get some push on. When every `nut` is tight an encouraging whack with a hammer, or a tad of heat or both and things should get moving. Good luck.