They're loaded

NoTrespassing · Jul 27, 2003

They\'re loaded

Well, I loaded the rear tires with 30 gals. of washer fluid each. They're 17.5-24s so I'm just guessing they're about 40% full right now. Is that a pretty close guess? Is there any reason 40% would be any more harmfull to the tractor than 75% full? I figure 240lbs. / wheel is a good start and a heck of a lot better than ZERO ballast. I was able to go up my gravel driveway in 2WD for the first time without locking the differential halfway up. I was also able to go down the hill in 2WD without skidding sideways. Now all I need is a good set of chains before winter. Oh and a snowblower, blade, 6ft. rotary cutter, plug aerator, tiller, and a nice backhoe! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Guess I better buy some more lottery tickets.

Peace
Kevin

DavesTractor · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Your math matches mine. I show the tire would hold 55 gallons at 75%, 75 gallons at 100% (which you would never want to do) and 30 gallons at 40%.

It's amazing what a little ballast will do for a tractor.

Henro · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Hi,

I think I read somewhere that if a tire is only half full and the tractor is run at high speed, like on a road, that you can get sloshing and this can lead to instability.

I don't know if this is accurate or not. Seems reasonable.

I filled mine to the valve stem...but my tractor is smaller...

Curious why you only filled to 40%...

Also, less fill puts the weight below the axle and does more to lower the center of gravity. This is good on a slope. BUT if you get into trouble, and the ballest shifts to the top side, then it hurts you and contributes to the possibility of a roll over.

Just a couple things to consider. May or may not be of any use...

NoTrespassing · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Well I guess I only filled 40% for several reasons. 1.) I like the idea of lowering the C/G 2.) I figure if anything 480lbs. will be less wear and tear on the drivetrain than 880lbs. 3.) I didn't feel like buying 110 gals. of washer fluid. 4.) I'm a little cheap. 5.) I'm a little lazy. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I can tell you it feels a lot more stable. We'll see how it feels the next time I've got some gravel to move. This tractor almost never sees high gear.

Kevin

Typhoon · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

how do you load tires anyways? How do you get the fluid in there?

chrisjbell · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

They make nifty little adapters that attach to the valve stems to fill tires. As I recall, about 8 bucks or so.

Also, I've heard that "sloshing" (is that really a word?) can cause instability, but I'd still think that any ballast is better than none. Can't argue with the "I'm lazy" reason, though /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Since I filled my tires (after about the first 50 hours) I fill 'em about 75% (up to the valve stem at around 11 o'clock). Next set of tires will be foam filled.

Gary_in_Indiana · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Will washer fluid cause rusting on the rims? I know plain water will. That's one reason a lot of people fill tires over the top of the rims from what I understand.

Did you fill just the rear tires or all four? Is there any problem with filling just the rears or filling all four? Does it matter whether it's 2WD or MFWD?

NoTrespassing · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Gary, thats a good point about the rusting issue. I've always heard that about calcium chloride. It would be interesting to see what others have to say. I only filled the rears. I've read where guys have filled the fronts too, but from what I've experienced, the front seems to be plenty heavy with the FEL. I haven't noticed it being light even with 600lbs of box scraper going uphill. Having said that, I guess I have gone up our hill in 2WD before the tires were loaded, it was with the box scraper on the back.

Typhoon, I filled em like several other guys mentioned. I used a pump that fits on a hand drill that I got at Menard's for $4.00. I jacked up the rear on one side, let the air out of the tire, removed the valve core, and pumped the fluid in. I let the pressure off every 5 gals. or so. When I had the 30 gals. in I aired the tire back up. As far as sinking in the yard, I've got mostly clay here. Unless it has just rained a whole bunch I won't sink a bit. Heck, I don't think I'd sink even if it had rained a lot. The water just seems to run off around here.

Kevin

bky · Jul 27, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

thats a good point about the rusting issue. I've always heard that about calcium chloride 

a tub in the tire would prevent this

skiprox · Jul 28, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

My dealer has said that if the tires aren't loaded 100% (with water) the oxygen remaining in the tire will rust the rims, but with them fully loaded, he hasn't experienced rusting in 20 years. Then again, we don't have multiple consecutive days of hard freezes in central Texas which could present other issues as the water freezes and expands.

rambler · Jul 28, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Just a few random thoughts:

1. Doesn't alcohol weigh more like 6-7# per gallon? The advatage of CC is that it weighs more than water does, it is cheap, it doesn't freeze, and it is not hazzardous. The disadvantage is that it is salt, & if you don't flush leaks, it will rust.

2. I've heard of the sloshing problem, also that tires filled less that 75% will cause friction inside the tires, taking away some hp. This might apply more to very large tires?

3. CC needs oxygen to rust metal. Inside the tire, it doesn't get much O2. The only time it's a problem is if it springs a leak, & you ignore it. I prefer innertubes for CC, but I have a larger 1977 tractor that has had CC in all 4 tires, no tubes in the rear, and no rust problems - when the tire went flat 2 years ago, the inside of the rim looked just as good as any other.

4. You can fill the fronts, or just the rears, or all 4. Check your tractor manual of course, but generally as long as you fill both the left & right, you can do either or both axles if you need the weight on that end of the machine.

--->Paul

GreenMtnMan · Jul 28, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

I don't think any tire or tractor manufacturer recommends filling tires to 100% - the tires need some air space to provide cushioning, which is required to absorb impacts. If you remove the air space you remove the cushioning and are basically riding on rocks. My JD manual has a big warning that says:

"Avoid damage. Cover rim completely with solution to avoid corrosion, but never more than 90% full. More solution would leave too little air space to absorb shocks. Damage to tire could occur."

chrisjbell · Jul 29, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

 Will washer fluid cause rusting on the rims? 

One of the reasons I've heard regarding using washer fluid vs. water is to prevent rusting. The alcohol should ****** rusting, from what I understand. Another reason is to prevent freezing, which I'm certain that washer fluid will help ******.

I got enough flats "back in the day" that I have tubes all around, and since we don't freeze here I just use water, about 80% full. I've also heard that you don't want to go 100% full because as soon as the liquid is over the center of gravity it starts to raise the COG, increasing instability.

F_22 · Nov 14, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Methanol (methyl alcohol) is the "antifreeze" in windshield washer fluid. It is not only toxic but is highly corrosive to metals, even without air present. Multi-fuel vehicles designed to accept methanol fuel use plastic and stainless fuel system components because of the corrosivity.

I don't know what the methanol concentration is in washer fluid but I'd guess it's pretty low. It evaporates promptly off of your windshield and adjacent metal body parts, but will obviously not do so inside a tire. I would like to hear the experiences of those that have used washer fluid for a significant time.

-former automotive engineer

JerryG · Nov 14, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Methanol has be used in many areas for tire ballast. Matter of a fact at least 6 dealers within 50 miles of where I live have used it for years. Years ago when I worked at dealership that is what we always used. I have never heard of it being corrosive. I have seen lots of tires with methanol in them broken down to be replaced and have never seen any corrosion on any of the wheels. The steel barrels never had anything but a nice finish in them. Farmer were always wanting our empty barrels. I am not saying that methanol is or is not corrosive, just that even with that much experience with it, I have never seen any evidence of it on the wheels or the barrels.

PineRidge · Nov 14, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Another unmentioned alternative is cast iron wheel weights. Put them on, as you need them, take them off when you don't need the compaction problems on the turf. No rusting, no corrosion. Now you can put Slime in the tires and also forget about flats as well. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I can strip 950 pounds of rear weight off my rig in 30 minutes with no fuss, can you do the same with fluids?

rdam · Nov 15, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

On a boat, the "sloshing" you refer to is called "free surface effect"(FSE). FSE has negative effect on stability. This is why boats/ships have baffled tanks. Fuel is often transfered from a patially filled tank to another partially filled tank to make the tank full. A full tank has no FSE, as it acts like solid cargo.

If you try to do some delicate, close in mowing or loader work, you may find the FSE in the tires a nuisance, as it may tend to rock the tractor back and forth some.

OkieG · Nov 16, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

 ...alternative is cast iron wheel weights. 

Cost and availabitity can be minuses for manufacturer's wheel weights. Liquid fill is usually cheap by comaparison...isn't it?

Still, I like the wheel weight approach, but ended up building my own from scrap steel (because of price and availability). Some TBNers have used old barbel weights. Wish I'd thought of that one before.

The idea of removeable weights appeals to me, but I admit, I've never taken my wheels weights off since I put 'em on, two years ago.

OkieG

BobReeves · Nov 16, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

Methanol gets corrosive only because it will absorb water right out of the air and the water is what causes the problem. Keep it in a sealed container and it is fine.

have_blue · Nov 16, 2003

Re: They\'re loaded

( I can strip 950 pounds of rear weight off my rig in 30 minutes with no fuss, can you do the same with fluids? )

Why would anyone want to remove weight? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif