Thinking of customizing my 3ph winch

[namesray]

This year I have been fighting mud on the fire wood logs I have been skidding out. It seems my fransgard winch isn't designed well for "skidding". It does great on "winching" the logs to the road, but I have always struggled finding the best method for "skidding" the logs to the landing, especially this year with all the mud. I have been sharpening the chainsaws constantly, as the logs get caked with mud. The factory design of the winch states to use the lower "tow bar" to hook the chains into and DO NOT use the cable for skidding. ok, but leaving the logs on the "tow bar" keeps them too close to the ground and thus the mud.

So next, I left the logs on the cable, and raised the butt ends up to the "dozer/anchor blade" at the bottom of the winch. (dozer/anchor blade is designed to place butt end of the logs against). doing this helped, but still after raising the 3ph to its fullest height, the logs are still too close to the mud.

Then, I started cutting the logs shorter (10ft lengths) to raise the angle of the log off the ground more. this worked "better" but was so inefficient as I spent so much time preparing the logs instead of just getting them to the landing.

So now to my point/question. The other day I started winching the logs all the way up to the upper part of the winch. above the dozer/anchor blade. This seemed to work great! However the winch is not designed to have a butt end of a log "banging" into this area. All the moving components of the winch are attached in this upper area, such as the drive shaft, and am concerned that one too many "bangs" in this area will bend the "frame work" for these moving parts and ruin the winch.

I am considering of attaching an upper skidding plate in this upper area of the winch to protect the frame work and moving parts. My theory is using a 10" I beam, placed vertical, welded on each side of the I beam to the winch. The gap behind the I beam would keep the log banging off the actual winch framework and the area of impact would be absorbed over a larger area= the welded area of the I beam where it attaches to the winch.

Any thoughts or suggestions??

 

[namesray]

Here is a video of a 3ph winch in action, so you can see how close to the ground and mud the logs are unless you were to pull the cable/log all the way up the winch. (not a fransgard winch video, but same operation)

The actual "skidding" portion of the video starts at about the 2 minute mark if you would like to fast forward to it.

Take note as to how close to the ground the logs are left by skidding according to the winches intended design. The ground in the video is pretty dry, just imagine if that was all mud and you had to cut those logs up with your chainsaw later. The saw won't stay sharp very long!

winches skidding - Bing Videos

 

[namesray]

Some quick illustrations of what I am thinking.

 

[jpm1]

Well Ray here's my take on all this.
I have a Farmi winch, Had it since 1978 and used it every ady since then. Its probably dragged out 20,000 cord of firewood, numerous vechiles and such. It has been used very hard and has broke 1 of my tractors rear end housing in half. No damage to the winch :laughing:
This is one tough piece of steel here. Watching the video yours and mine are made similiar except i don't have a blade. Mine has 2 legs instead. I have never dragged loggs from the lower chain holds, its always from the top roller. Some of my skidds this year were a half mile each way, pulled 500 cord that way so far this year. yea, the logs bang in to the frame but its heavy enough to with stand the use, paint is bummed up but, its only paint, i buy equipment to use, not to look good and no my tractors dont get waxed either :laughing: This year i am using the winch on my Kiot iDK 35SE for the simple reason it has a better seat , easier on my body.
First picture is a part of what i have dragged out this summer, the others are of my winch. . . . .This is how iv'e done it for years . . .John

 

[Jeff Lary]

Jpm1,... Nice pile of wood,
I too have a Farmi and use it in the winter mostly to get out saw log's and my fire wood. I too let my load dangle from the top roller some but have always worried about the weight on the main shive/ roller pin. But unless I drop the twitch and remove the cable chokers then re-hook the logs with chain to the tow / slotted bar the load would be very close to the ground. I don't worry about mud as the ground is frozen when I am cutting . The twitch moves sooo much easier with the buts up off the ground.

 

[CalG]

We must suppose that the "No Skidding from the winch rope" warning is due to safety concerns.
High point pulling is NEVER a good idea. Tractors are known to rear over backwards and kill their drivers that way.
Then too, I suppose that it might be possible to pull the rope so tight that it wedges in under the outer spool windings and make a mess out of letting cable out when it is next needed.

But, IF you promise not to snag the butts (which should be easy if they are four feet off the ground ;-) And if you promise not to pull trees without at least half cutting the branches so they can fold back, I would say, do what you want, the winch won't be hurt a bit by some added metal!

cheers

 

[trihounds]

I read online that part of the concern with using the top pulley to haul out is the additional stress on the top link - and that can cause a failure on the tractor (or obviously impact the toplink)

 

[Oldpath05]

Some quick illustrations of what I am thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeyHJil9qXQ
Why you pulling from the bottom pulley, I didn't buy that when I got my winch, I had a thin steel plate where the pulley attachment would go, I took that off, copied it to a thicker piece of steel and put that on. I always winch to the top pulley, and if I have to go around a corner that might tipper the tractor over, I lower the winch down till it almost hits the ground. I haul out big logs and they bang into the upper plate, I mean BANG!, nothing broke yet, and I get my 10 cord of firewood out during the winter when there's snow on the ground so the wood will stay a lot cleaner, and haul a lot faster.

Also if I haul logs out in the summer or when it's muddy, that story is part II

 

[namesray]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeyHJil9qXQ
Why you pulling from the bottom pulley, I didn't buy that when I got my winch, I had a thin steel plate where the pulley attachment would go, I took that off, copied it to a thicker piece of steel and put that on. I always winch to the top pulley, and if I have to go around a corner that might tipper the tractor over, I lower the winch down till it almost hits the ground. I haul out big logs and they bang into the upper plate, I mean BANG!, nothing broke yet, and I get my 10 cord of firewood out during the winter when there's snow on the ground so the wood will stay a lot cleaner, and haul a lot faster.

Also if I haul logs out in the summer or when it's muddy, that story is part II

Oldpath05, that is a nice set up you have there. That is a L3400 kubota?!! Very nice the way you have all your tools setup on it. Thanks for the video and YES I want to hear "part II" of the story!

Like you say, pulling from the bottom pulley or tow bar does not work for keeping mud off. And I dont have the luxury of doing all my firewood in the snow, as I am now doing over 400 face cord per year. Its an all year/seasons thing for me. My last 2 wood plots are wet any way and this past year was real rainy in northern pennsylvania.

As for too much strain on the top link by skidding from the top pulley, that doesnt concern me. The tractor is holding up to it well over these years.

When pulling from the top pulley, yes sometimes the ouuer most wrap of cable does get pinched down into the other wraps on the drum, but only happens once in awhile.

I have not done any upper skid plate modifications yet. My b7800 3ph lift is not that great for lifting the weight and all the weight of the logs up, so I did not want to add more weight to the winch by welding a plate on. I have been considering a much larger tractor, with more 3 ph lift, in hopes of 2 things. One, for the bigger tractor to be able to lift the winch and hitch higher then my b7800 can and two, if that still is not enough, the bigger tractor 3ph rating can lift any modification I weld back there along with more logs then my b7800 can.

My main concern with not having extra protection on the winch is the logs banging WILL bend or dent something that will ruin the winch. Its onlt 3/16 thick on the winch up there. Also, the upper part of my winch isnt very wide and on sharp switchbacks, the logs come out from behind the winch and bang into the side of the winch.

Hopefully if I get a larger tractor, it will just lift the winch and hitch higher the way the winch was orginally designed, but somehow I doubt it will be that easy.

 

[Oldpath05]

There's a slight hiccup with part II of the story, last summer my son took some pics. with his smart phone, but couldn't get the pictures off that stupid card, (do over) this spring.
But last summer I wanted to find a way of getting the logs less muddy so I can save some time debarking at the mill. I started taking my trailer in the woods near the logs, it has 4, 2-1/2 foot high stakes, and I find a level-ish place to park it. Then go cut the logs down, winch them to the tractor, drag them to the trailer, load them with the bucket, I can haul more on the trailer and I was keeping them a lot cleaner that way. The longest I can haul on the trailer is 25 feet, then put a few shorter ones on top.

The moral of the story is, the best way I know of to keep wood clean when it get muddy and haul more with one trip, is a trailer/wagon. I also noticed it's a lot faster unloading than loading. So if this is going to be an ongoing operation with that much firewood, I'd consider a trailer capable of supporting a small pulp loader that can be added on some day, or if next week you win the lottery, you could then go buy a small trailer with a log loader on it, and give me a percentage for this outstanding idea.

 

[Oldpath05]

My 3 point hitch didn't have enough lift ether, so with $200.00 for an 9000 lb. electric winch I improvised.

 

[Baby Grand]

Oldpath - I like your uparmor job. Impressive.
Is the tool store still there?
I used to love to go there & sift thru the inventory on a rainy day.

 

[Oldpath05]

Oldpath - I like your uparmor job. Impressive.
Is the tool store still there?
I used to love to go there & sift thru the inventory on a rainy day.

If your talking about the tool store in down town Liberty that sells used tools, I was up there last summer and bought some of this that and the other thing, but probably in the winter time it's open with limited hrs.

 

[Baby Grand]

If your talking about the tool store in down town Liberty that sells used tools, I was up there last summer and bought some of this that and the other thing, but probably in the winter time it's open with limited hrs.

Yes, that's the one. Looks to be an old 3 story general store, but packed basement to attic with used tools. Glad to hear it's still there.

 

[jimmysisson]

Oldpath I agree completely about the trailer method. I have 1/2 mile betw woodlot and woodshed and don't drag anything that far. Winch it to the woods road, then grapple onto the trailer.
Guys on TBN don't seem to feel the same, but I like the system a lot. I get about 3/4 of a cord per load.
Jim

 

[Oldpath05]

Oldpath I agree completely about the trailer method. I have 1/2 mile betw woodlot and woodshed and don't drag anything that far. Winch it to the woods road, then grapple onto the trailer.
Guys on TBN don't seem to feel the same, but I like the system a lot. I get about 3/4 of a cord per load.
Jim

Next time you get some firewood out with trailer, you'll have to get some pictures, I'll have some this spring when I get some more logs out, my son is gonna need a bunch to finish his house this summer.

 

[jimmysisson]

This is what I use. It's an old mobile home frame. I welded some pockets onto it for 4x4 stakes, and two more near the tongue for some 4x4 struts. I tow it behind the winch. When I get near the trees I'll cut, I lift the front of the trailer, slide down the struts and pin them, then let the trailer down on the side of the woods road.
6x8 bunks on the trailer deck have a chunk of 4x4x3/16" square tubing attached at each end to keep them in place. That raises the logs above the bed and makes it easier to unload.
Cut the trees into 10' lengths (stove takes 20"), winch to trailer site, then grapple onto the trailer. When it's loaded, pick up the front again, raise the struts, and drive to the barnyard. Trailer holds about a cord, all I want for weight on my steep woods roads. I unload with the grapple.
This is a good system for me, since it's 15-20 minutes from woodlot to barnyard at tractor speeds. Wood is clean mostly, and roads aren't rutted up by skidding.
I also like your up-armored protection, and plan on some of that myself. Here's pix of front of trailer, and with some pine logs a neighbor gave me.
Jim

 

[Oldpath05]

Nice trailer Jim, what tractor you pulling that with, and if you put on 16' logs, can you still raise those struts up? The only thing similar to my trailer is the bunks with short removable stakes, and planked over. The biggest differences is a stronger mobile home frame, A (A) frame hitch with a ring, and the best part of your trailer, is the tandem wheels which I bet helps it pull easier over stumps and bumps.

My trailer is from an 1/2 ton pickup frame with the rear axle welded to it. My hitch a 2x4, 6' long qu. stock with 1/4" wall, welded to center of trailer. It has one 2x2 sq. tube for a strut/stand, that sets in another 2-1/2 qu. tube 6" long with a removable pin like you have and same length as yours, but the 6" long piece is welded to pipe that fits over a smaller pipe, like in front of your strut, and another pin to hold the stand vertical or horizontal when hooked on tractor.
That way I can haul 16' logs and still swing my stand up horizontal.

Also if I haven't given you many numbers at once, I have a 2" qu. receiver welded in the bottom of my winch, so I can take the trailer hitch out when not in use, and I better get some pics. of that, or I'll be typing another 100 words, not the standed trailer hitch with ball.