Thread sealants on NPT and others?

   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #1  

joea99

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Kubota B21, JD 240GT
Lots of old threads and various opinions, but would like to revisit. I've not done much but all the NPT I've done (Kubota B21 2000# nominal) have been "dry" and not leaked. But I gather that is not the norm.

Teflon tape seems to be on no ones "good idea" list.

Various other solutions, loc tite, 3 Bond, and others, seem to be favored. At least on NPT.

Some say to use nothing on JIC or oring boss. But I have found, taking stuff apart, that corrosion can be and issue on those, so maybe using a modest amount of low strength thread locker or non hardening sealer, just to keep water out, is not a bad idea, but just on the threads.

Let the games begin.
 
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   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #2  
I use Blue Monster on everything
 

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   / Thread sealants on NPT and others?
  • Thread Starter
#4  
I use Blue Monster on everything

I have that but worry about being sloppy and getting it into fluid. I also have loctite 592 that I have used on engines, but never hydraulic systems.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others?
  • Thread Starter
#5  
I use LocTite 545 for NPT hydraulic fittings. JIC and o-ring I assemble dry but corrosion is not a huge issue here.

I'm leaning toward trying that as some vendors recommend it as well. Pricey.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #7  
I will defer to Parker on this, I know that they have done testing to determine the best way to seal fittings.

This is what they state for O-ring Boss. R4
Inspect components to ensure that male and female port threads and sealing surfaces are free of burrs, nicks, and scratches, or any foreign material.
2. If O-ring or seal is not pre-installed to fitting male port end, install proper size O-ring or seal, taking care not to damage it.
3. Lubricate O-ring with light coating of system fluid or a compatible lubricant to help the O-ring slide past the port entrance corner and avoid damaging it.
4. Screw fitting into port and tighten to proper torque from the appropriate table located on pages R5 - R6


Below is for JIC R26
Torque Method
With proper tube fl are alignment with the nose of the fitting, tighten the nut to appropriate torque value in Table R23. This method is fast and accurate when preset torque wrenches are used. Consistent component selection is recommended so that the effects of dissimilar plating is not an adverse factor in joint integrity. This makes it desirable for high production assembly lines. However, a joint assembled using the torque method
can only be checked for proper tightening by torquing it again.
Note: This method should not be used if the type of plating on the fitting and mating parts (sleeve + nut or hose swivel) is not known. The torque method should not be used for lubricated or oily parts as improper clamping forces may result. Over-tightening and fitting damage may occur as a result

All straight thread fittings have this note.
Assembly Torque: Torque values are for unlubricated carbon steel components and properly lubricated stainless steel components. All stainless steel Triple-Lok tube nuts have an anti-seize lubricant to prevent galling during assembly.
No additional lubricant is needed unless the tube nuts are washed or heated above 150ºF. Stainless steel fittings use the upper limit of torque range

Pipe Thread R7
The proper method of assembling tapered threaded connectors is to assemble them finger tight and then wrench tighten further to the specified number of turns from finger tight (T.F.F.T.) given in Table R5. The following assembly procedure is recommended to minimize the risk of leakage and/or damage to components.
1. Inspect components to ensure that male and female port threads and sealing surfaces are free of burrs, nicks, scratches, or any foreign material.
2. Apply sealant/lubricant to male pipe threads if not pre- applied. For stainless steel fittings, the use of Parker Threadmate sealant/lubricant is strongly recommended.
(Pre-applied dry sealants are preferred over other sealants). With any sealant, the first one to two threads should be left uncovered to avoid system contamination.
If PTFE tape is used it should be wrapped 1-1/2 to 2 turns in clockwise direction when viewed from the pipe thread end.
Caution: More than two turns of tape may cause distortion or cracking of the port.
3. Screw the connector into the port to the finger tight position.
4. Wrench tighten the connector to the appropriate T.F.F.T. values shown in Table R5, making sure that the tube end of a shaped connector is aligned to receive the incoming tube or hose assembly. Never back off (loosen) pipe threaded connectors to achieve alignment.
5. If leakage persists after following the above steps, check for damaged threads and total number of threads engaged.



I was surprised about the comment for tape so I looked for another reference.
Rhino Ag in reference to installing hoses on a loader.
Apply sealant only to all tapered threads unless coupled with swivel adapters. When using Teflon tape, wrap tape clockwise (as viewed from end) and wrap only twice. Keep sealant away from first two threads of tapered end to prevent contamination of hydraulic fluid. Do not use sealant on O-ring or flare adapter threads.

Based off what the manufactures state we should be assembling straight thread fittings dry and using pipe dope or tape on tapered threads. I was surprised that tape is an approved method of sealing. The folks at parker know more about sealing threads than almost anyone on the forum and have spent thousands testing the best methods. Feel free to link to reliable sources that state otherwise. The tape for tapered threads was new to me and I have been advising clients that tape was evil for years....
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #8  
I had some hydraulic lines a few years back and tried everything available, dope, tape, shellac, you name it, fought with it for over a month. Everything I tried it would leak until finally I found Loctite 567, has not leaked a drop or shown any signs of seepage. I still use tape on almost all NPT fittings unless it has something to do with keeping oil in.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others?
  • Thread Starter
#9  
I will defer to Parker on this, I know that they have done testing to determine the best way to seal fittings.
. . .
I was surprised that tape is an approved method of sealing. The folks at parker know more about sealing threads than almost anyone on the forum and have spent thousands testing the best methods. Feel free to link to reliable sources that state otherwise. The tape for tapered threads was new to me and I have been advising clients that tape was evil for years....
Wow. That is pretty much in line with what I've always thought, except for the tape comments. Pretty much everywhere I've seen was down on tape.

I have a couple rolls of tape rated for oil and gas that say "up to 300 psig". AND recommend 4 turns.

Probably most of the tape problems have been from people over wrapping, too many turns, and/or letting tape wrap too close to the start of the threads, or even over, so that pieces could break off and create havoc in spools and such.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #10  
Contamination from Teflon Tape problems are frequently when a fitting is removed and the pieces of old tape are then free to fall into the port or are pushed in when new fitting is installed. Careful cleaning is required before reassembly. Same cleaning is required with loctite and other sealants.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #11  
I started using heavy teflon tape on NPT. I've found the dried liquid teflon dope crumbling on disassembly making contamination as much of an issue as using the thin teflon tape which shreds. The thick stuff doesn't shred and stays on when changing hoses and fittings.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #12  
I’ve always used Teflon tape on NPT pipe/fittings, and always will
Teflon can and will get into the hydraulic system and clog valves and such. I have personaly pulled it out of places it shouldnt be.

I use loctite 456.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #13  
I have used Teflon tape for NPT joints from the late 70's on to today. On Stainless Steel pipe I use Teflon tape and a nickle anti-seize. Tape on the male never-seize on the female (Chesterton spray Nickle used to be the best) those connections could be made up and loosened and re tightened, that does not happen much with SS npt fittings or actually SS threads of any kind. I do use squeeze tubes of teflon pipe dope also at times.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #14  
i like like tight 5452


There are other similar products. teflon based anything big no no.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #15  
Another vote for Loctite 545. I've used teflon tape and tpfe paste for many fittings, until I encountered several high pressure leaks on NPT fittings that would not seal. Use the primer/cleaner to create a clean metal surface. It starts to congeal on contact, and will harden in minutes.
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #16  
I don’t know that there’s a “right” answer with NPT. Pipe threads seal by deforming the threads EVER so slightly … Teflon tape actually functions as a lubricant more than as a sealant. Reducing friction between threads to achieve the right torque.

There is certainly a right answer with JIC and O-ring fittings. The seal is created by
-the two tapers coming together in the male and female (JIC)
-or the o-ring being squished “just enough” in O-ring boss or face seal
In either, the threads are just there to clamp. Threads hold the connection mechanically but there is no sealing done at threads.

If you THINK glopping stuff on threads in such instances “helps”… it’s at best a band aid for a damaged fitting or cut oring that needs replaced. If fluid is even GETTING to the threads when tight, you got bigger problems, and spackling over the threads isn’t a proper repair. Or safe.

If you’re worried about fittings coming loose, you don’t have a loctite issue, you have a torque issue. Or you have a hose installed with a twist in it that’s trying to loosen your connection under vibration or whatever
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #17  
Looking on Amazon:
Loctite 545-36 ml Bottle (PN: 492145) $24.79 ($20.49 / Fl Oz)
Loctite 5452™ Fast Cure Thread Sealant, Purple, 50mL Tube - $95.28 ($56.38 / Fl Oz)
Is the only difference the speed of the cure?
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #18  
Simple rule is tapered threads usually require thread lube or sealant, straight threads do not require thread lube or sealant because "seal" is not at the threads.... I always seem to have bad results with tapered threads I use various forms of sealant and tape and always seem to have to work fitting 2-3 time to get a seal... Good luck on whatever form you decide to use....
 
   / Thread sealants on NPT and others? #19  
As for Parker...... way back. A parker rep suggested we switch to Fel-pro 51454. It is a 250ml bottle. Had to go down to the tool box to check. Had it forever.

We were having Teflon accumulate in the pressure compensator on there pump. When we switched it solved a lot of leak issues also. Some engineers are a trip. You flat out can't assemble the hydraulic hoses on a piece of equipment and use a torque wrench on everything. It is about feel. The younger guys working assembly don't have the touch. They were either too loose or most were over torqued.

We increased the education on the shop floor at the time also. We basically had to teach, "tight" So, what really fixed it ...

The solution would be to design it more better and switch to steal lines. That would require more work on there part. Lot easier to say well, "if you just torque it right get the flex on the hose right. It will work fine" I don't know how may times I have stood there with engineering watching, proving that it can't be done that way. "Just because it worked in 3D CAD, means nothing, down here in the real world"

The sealant on the straight tread is being used as a thread locker.

So, the Loctite or felpro product gives the shop floor one product for more applications.
 

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