Tier 4 info

[KenB2920]

Ok, for those of you with Tier 4,


What does it during regen?
Does it rev up by itself or do bells and whistles go off telling you to raise the RPMs?

Is the tractor left useless during regen? I read on here it has to be load less. Does this mean no use of PTO? Can you still use the loader for loader work? Is that to much use?

Can the tractor still be driven or does it have to be parked? Is there any limited uses for it?

Say it goes into regen and I am using a front plow or back blade to clear snow in the winter, do I have to park?

I take my tractor to several jobs. If it calls for regen at the end of a job, can I load it on the trailer and let it regen on the trip home?

How long does regen take? I've heard a few minutes up to 30 minutes.

If the tractor has to regen at the end of the day, can I just shut it off and the next morning start it up and out it into regen myself? If I know a regen is goin to come at some point durin the day, can I put it into regen to sort of pre plan for the day?

Random questions but these things make me curious. I have a 2009 2500HD Duramax and it doesn't affect my daily driving, towing etc.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Scott65]

Very good questions, I've wondered the exact same things myself. I can only answer a couple of them. On my L3301, I have 2 lights on the dash come on, blinking if I remember correctly. It took me a minute the first time to figure out the sequence because of the delay for them turning off once the criteria was met. One is telling you to rev to a certain RPM. It goes off immediately once your at that speed. The other blinks for a bit longer, maybe 20 or 30 seconds. Thats where I got confused. I kept mashing buttons because nothing would change. Finally I just stopped and sat there in frustration and it finally just did its thing. It goes solid, meaning its regenning (probably not a word). It simply turns off when its done. I continue running the tractor at that rpm, I've never done anything that seemed to trigger it to stop prematurely that I know of. I've driven it, front end loaded, and I'm pretty sure used the bush hog. Not sure what the cold weather will do, since heat is a big factor for this system. So your situation may be different. But I would think if nothing else, the more load the better for you. It NEEDS to be worked to regen.

That being said, I've also revved it and walked away. My driveway is 1000 feet long. I've revved it to its spec (whatever the PTO 540 mark is, its a couple hundred RPM over that), driven the golf cart to check mailbox, shut gate, drive back, so maybe 5ish minutes? And it was done. This is 95 to 100 degrees outside, usually after moderate use of the FEL for a couple hours. Hopefully this gives you some sort of idea of the process.

What I don't know though, is whether or not you can shut it off when those lights are on. My guess is yes. When I bought the tractor, the guys at the dealer were telling me a story of a guy that loaned his out to someone that didn't know about the new systems and kept using the tractor through its 4 or 5 warning stages (blinkings and beepings and all sorts of things), until it shut down and required a dealer and laptop to come out and manually regen to get it going again. I assume (which is never a good idea) that throughout all of this, the guy shut the tractor off and restarted it, at least once. Just a guess though. So based on that assumption, I'm confident enough that I'm thinking of shutting mine off next time it starts flashing at the end of the day, and trying to let it regen the next day. I'll post back up what happens.

The only other thing I can think to say is in response to you asking about regen while towing it home. I would say yes, it would be the same as me doing it while going to close my gate. But be sure you haven't clogged the little screen in front of the radiator. I found that screen the hard way. It started flashing at me, it was overheating. I was running it fairly hard. I opened the hood and saw all the dirt/weed seed looking stuff stuck in this screen. Very easy to clean, but clogs quickly. It made a huge difference. This thing breathes hard. It got hot quickly, and cooled back down nearly immediately. This happened at a much lower speed than whats required for regen. If this happened on your trip home while you were revved to 2700 or whatever the speed is, I'm affraid you wouldn't have a motor left...

 

[jaydee325]

There seems to be a huge education hole here with the new technology.

Are the dealers not providing information on what to expect and when and under what conditions at the point of purchase? Does the owners manual have any description of the process?

I did a little research and found a great deal of information on the Deere website under their FAQ on emissions. It appears with the Deere technology, if the engine is run under load for the appropriate amount of time, the DPF will regen passively. If light loads or short operation periods exist, it will go into active regen based on the condition of the DPF sensed by the ECU, which requires the operator to let the computer finish the process which may include higher RPM and fuel added to raise the temperature in the DPF. It was a very interesting read (at least for diesel geeks like me!):laughing:

 

[Scott65]

I will be the first to admit, I have not done near enough reading in my owners manual. In fact, I'm not sure where it is at the moment... My dealer told me that a light would come on, mash this button, keep on truckin. He made his sale, he was wrong, I still love the tractor so I never bothered going back to complain, definitely a mistake on my part.
The kubota must be similar to the deere because I have noticed hotter days and heavier use with less idle time result in more run time between regens. I'm sure the process is still occurring, just behind the scenes without the blinking lights

 

[buickanddeere]

Just operate the machine. it's built to take care of regen on it's own.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Just operate the machine. it's built to take care of regen on it's own.

This is true.. IF your remembering to push the auto regen button on the dash. By default, the tractor will not auto regen because the lawyers where afraid of it creating extra heat when the operator maybe unaware (this will be changing in future tractors). for the time being, you need to start the tractor and push the auto regen button... then you never have to worry about it. CE stuff is in this mode by default, tractors are not.

 

[Scott65]

Mine will regen on its own if conditions are right. If not, and it requires regen, that's when it turns the lights on and you have to perform the steps yourself. There is a second button on the dash, an override. It keeps regen from happening while your using the tractor. This is if your in a flammable environment, say a hay barn and don't want to catch it on fire

 

[MHarryE]

Harry, I'm sorry, I don't understand the first part of your information. What are your percentages referring to? Also, that's a pretty handy feature to monitor your temps. Either I missed something, or more likely is mine doesn't have the capability to display the dpf temps, soot loads, etc. And you're right, trucks are much different. The temperatures fluctuate constantly. The dpf will only regen under certain conditions, usually running down the highway. As a result, my most disgruntled customers are farmers and ranchers who idle their trucks all the time, which soots up the exhaust and is rarely able to enter regeneration mode

Scott - mine has 21 items from which I can select to display on my 4 line screen. One I use a lot is percentage of full power. The tractor has auto shift so it will shift down when it hits 100% and begins to lug down. You can control the sensitivity - how far you will let it lug down - with a dial. Once it hits easier running it will shift up again but that is like 50% so I keep an eye on the display after it shifts down and manually tap the button to shift up. I like it both for PTO (chopper) and plowing.

 

[Scott65]

Oh wow, that's awesome. Mine is not anywhere near that complicated. It has hours. That's it... lol. You have several models in your sig, which one are you referring to?

 

[Retired Iron Peddler]

I purchased my Kubota L5460 with a cab in June. I have about 40 hours on it now and it has gone through one regeneration at approximately 35 hours. On my tractor the Auto-Regeneration is the default setting when the engine is started and I leave it there. When it did its first regeneration, I was mowing and running the engine at 2400-rpm. I was watching since I check the soot level regularly to see what its doing out of curiosity. The only thing that was different during regeneration was a light on the dash indicating it was in regeneration. Regeneration ran for about 20 minutes and when I checked the DPF soot level it was back to 0%. There was no change in engine speed, power or sound. If I had not noticed the Regeneration Indicator light on the dash, I wouldn't have known it was happening.

This is my first Tier 4 diesel and I was curious how it worked. I read the explanation in the Owner's Manual thoroughly and understood what would occur and it did exactly as was instructed. I am very pleased with the tractor and its performance has been beyond my expectations. I've been driving tractors (ranging from JD Model L to a 350-hp Steiger) for over 60 years and this is the best one by far.

Before purchasing my tractor, I was concerned about the air conditioner keeping me cool on 100 degree days. I'm happy to report the air conditioner in the cab is great. I have outside air selected and running the fan speed on 2 (1 is slowest speed and 4 is the highest speed) and it keeps me very comfortable in 100 degree days in the full sun. On partly cloudy days at near 100 degrees with the fan speed on 2, I actually get cold when a cloud passed over and shades the sunshine for very long. After a hot dusty afternoon mowing, I and my clothes are still clean at the end of the day.

Bill

 

[KenB2920]

I purchased my Kubota L5460 with a cab in June. I have about 40 hours on it now and it has gone through one regeneration at approximately 35 hours. On my tractor the Auto-Regeneration is the default setting when the engine is started and I leave it there. When it did its first regeneration, I was mowing and running the engine at 2400-rpm. I was watching since I check the soot level regularly to see what its doing out of curiosity. The only thing that was different during regeneration was a light on the dash indicating it was in regeneration. Regeneration ran for about 20 minutes and when I checked the DPF soot level it was back to 0%. There was no change in engine speed, power or sound. If I had not noticed the Regeneration Indicator light on the dash, I wouldn't have known it was happening.

This is my first Tier 4 diesel and I was curious how it worked. I read the explanation in the Owner's Manual thoroughly and understood what would occur and it did exactly as was instructed. I am very pleased with the tractor and its performance has been beyond my expectations. I've been driving tractors (ranging from JD Model L to a 350-hp Steiger) for over 60 years and this is the best one by far.

Before purchasing my tractor, I was concerned about the air conditioner keeping me cool on 100 degree days. I'm happy to report the air conditioner in the cab is great. I have outside air selected and running the fan speed on 2 (1 is slowest speed and 4 is the highest speed) and it keeps me very comfortable in 100 degree days in the full sun. On partly cloudy days at near 100 degrees with the fan speed on 2, I actually get cold when a cloud passed over and shades the sunshine for very long. After a hot dusty afternoon mowing, I and my clothes are still clean at the end of the day.

Bill

This is good to hear. I was hearing you have to park the tractor. Mowing is definitely a tax on the PTO so this sound like most any PTO work can be done while regen is in progress.

 

[MHarryE]

Oh wow, that's awesome. Mine is not anywhere near that complicated. It has hours. That's it... lol. You have several models in your sig, which one are you referring to?

The one to which I am referring is the Kubota M135GX. The L5740 is also Tier 4 interim but in that power class they don't clean up the soot until Tier 4 final (60 series). JD 6230 is Tier 3, probably the most troublesome of the bunch but also gets used the most. The JD 7720 is Tier 2 and rock solid. The NH TS115A is also Tier 2 keeps running but it has warning alarms beeping constantly (we think defective sensors). The L5740 will probably get traded on a Tier 4 final once it is paid off in 2 years.

 

[KenB2920]

The one to which I am referring is the Kubota M135GX. The L5740 is also Tier 4 interim but in that power class they don't clean up the soot until Tier 4 final (60 series). JD 6230 is Tier 3, probably the most troublesome of the bunch but also gets used the most. The JD 7720 is Tier 2 and rock solid. The NH TS115A is also Tier 2 keeps running but it has warning alarms beeping constantly (we think defective sensors). The L5740 will probably get traded on a Tier 4 final once it is paid off in 2 years.

Any problems with your L5740? Do you use it? How many hours will you have on it in 2 years (best guess)? I wish I had a 5740, that's why I ask. Which tier 4 will you get to replace it? L6060 or something different?

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

I see a lot of comments about tier 4 and about the regen issues also def fluid. I will be the first to tell you that all that is not a problem when everything is working its great. The problem comes when you have a problem such as no start low power etc. these eng are computer controlled and have a sensor for everything unless you have the ability to communicate with control device your shooting in the dark no more going to forum and saying my tractor does this any ideas because it could be any number of things that the untrained person has never heard of.
I work for a large company in the fleet service and in the truck side we bought extended warrantys for the first time after encountering so many expensive problems. not to count money spent on scanners and laptops cables and software for each brand puts it out of reach for small shops

 

[KenB2920]

I see a lot of comments about tier 4 and about the regen issues also def fluid. I will be the first to tell you that all that is not a problem when everything is working its great. The problem comes when you have a problem such as no start low power etc. these eng are computer controlled and have a sensor for everything unless you have the ability to communicate with control device your shooting in the dark no more going to forum and saying my tractor does this any ideas because it could be any number of things that the untrained person has never heard of.
I work for a large company in the fleet service and in the truck side we bought extended warrantys for the first time after encountering so many expensive problems. not to count money spent on scanners and laptops cables and software for each brand puts it out of reach for small shops

Yikes !!!! My exact fears of a new purchase !!!

Maybe I'll keep Mine for a few years u til its paid for, then buy another used down the line.

Are there any L5740's left in the country new? ANYWHERE? Or L5240s (CAB TRACTOR)

 

[MHarryE]

Any problems with your L5740? Do you use it? How many hours will you have on it in 2 years (best guess)? I wish I had a 5740, that's why I ask. Which tier 4 will you get to replace it? L6060 or something different?

I bought my L5740 in 2011 and now have about 600 hours on it. One breakdown - the loader control cable - lever to control valve - broke and it was down 11 days waiting for a replacement. Other than that no real problem except it sometimes sets off the smoke alarm in the garage on start up. By the way L5740s are Tier 4 interim, the L6060 is Tier 4 final. Major reason for wanting to replace it is my wife has asthma and the smoke and fumes can set off need for her inhaler while our other 4 diesel tractors are no problem. I would probably look at a L6060 or John Deere equivalent. All others out of consideration because of no dealer within 250 miles.

 

[KenB2920]

I bought my L5740 in 2011 and now have about 600 hours on it. One breakdown - the loader control cable - lever to control valve - broke and it was down 11 days waiting for a replacement. Other than that no real problem except it sometimes sets off the smoke alarm in the garage on start up. By the way L5740s are Tier 4 interim, the L6060 is Tier 4 final. Major reason for wanting to replace it is my wife has asthma and the smoke and fumes can set off need for her inhaler while our other 4 diesel tractors are no problem. I would probably look at a L6060 or John Deere equivalent. All others out of consideration because of no dealer within 250 miles.

Ah very good. What are your main uses for it? When you are interested in selling in a couple years let me know. I will most likely be trading up my L3540. I'd like to stay with the interim 4.

I don't want to spread rumors, but here goes. I read on here two company's going away from DPF filters and the regen process in the next couple years. I don t recall if they were adding DEF fluid or using another method. For all I know its unicorn tears. I heard Kubota and possible Mahindra. Again, just stuff I read on here a week or so ago.

 

[MHarryE]

Ah very good. What are your main uses for it? When you are interested in selling in a couple years let me know. I will most likely be trading up my L3540. I'd like to stay with the interim 4. I don't want to spread rumors, but here goes. I read on here two company's going away from DPF filters and the regen process in the next couple years. I don t recall if they were adding DEF fluid or using another method. For all I know its unicorn tears. I heard Kubota and possible Mahindra. Again, just stuff I read on here a week or so ago.

I read that Kubota was going to start selling engines in 2015 that meet Tier 4 final without a DPF and several assumptions that meant their tractors were going to get them, but I haven't seen a confirmation from Kubota. Diesels generally produce a lot of smoke on start up. That's why only the small engines that still allow a lot of soot retain indirect injection - it creates smokey starts. High pressure common rail is one of the main solutions companies have adapted. Transients like fast response and great lugging ability produce soot. Deere states that is why they have retained the DPF plus adding DEF for their most popular size ag tractors. They could get by without the DPF by slowing the engine response, no problem for an engine running a generator or the refrigeration unit on a truck, but not good for the farmer who doesn't want his engine to stall when he drops a tillage implement into the ground. However technology is always advancing and with every introduction by one manufacturer all of the other manufacturers are watching to see the resultant customer acceptance. First buyers of new offerings are competitors who want to test.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I thought I'd jump in since I'm living with a Tier 4 final tractor, my Kioti NX6010.

Kioti's strategy is simple: As a tractor slowly clogs up the DPF, the tractor loses a bit of power. That would be bad, except the operator can start the cleaning cycle to restore power while operating the tractor with no need to sit and wait, or when the DPF clogs up enough, the tractor will start a regen cycle on its own with no loss of power and while in full use by the operator. The only stipulation is that the tractor must remain running while regenerating. As the regeneration cycle goes, lost power is restored.

A regeneration cycle can be over-ridden by the operator up the three times, before the tractor forces a regen cycle. This is so the operator can pack the tractor, say at the end of the day.

The engine runs very, very clean. No smoke has been seen, ever. No even on start-up.

The downside? I look at my tractor suspiciously when it is idling, a thing that I have never done to any diesel before.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I thought I'd jump in since I'm living with a Tier 4 final tractor, my Kioti NX6010.

90% sure that's tier 4a, not tier 4 final. They have to stop building tier 4a engines 12/31/14 and have to have production switched to tier4 final 3/31/15.