Tier 4 info

[Scott65]

Interesting. It sounds like it's mostly just like the trucks I work on, except they are based on mileage instead of hours. I pull the dpf's all the time to have them baked. Only problem is on a truck, the pcm needs to be reset so the regen schedule is rearranged accordingly.

This raises a question for me. At what speed should I normally be running for "general use" on my l3301? The only reference I've been made aware of is the rpm (marked on the gauge) to obtain 540 at the pto. Obviously it's nice to achieve the most power. But as a mechanic, it's always in the back of my mind not to have it's tongue hanging out unnecessarily. Over revving heats the fluids, hammers on bearings, etc. And in west texas, just turning the key on, I'm already starting off at 100 degrees

 

[wmonroe]

Interesting. It sounds like it's mostly just like the trucks I work on, except they are based on mileage instead of hours. I pull the dpf's all the time to have them baked. Only problem is on a truck, the pcm needs to be reset so the regen schedule is rearranged accordingly. This raises a question for me. At what speed should I normally be running for "general use" on my l3301? The only reference I've been made aware of is the rpm (marked on the gauge) to obtain 540 at the pto. Obviously it's nice to achieve the most power. But as a mechanic, it's always in the back of my mind not to have it's tongue hanging out unnecessarily. Over revving heats the fluids, hammers on bearings, etc. And in west texas, just turning the key on, I'm already starting off at 100 degrees

I run mine at whatever rpm I feel is right for the task, loader work around 1800-2200, running my finish mower about 2200, brush hog 2200-2600 depending on how thick the brush, bailer gets run right at pto speed which is 2600. You're not going to hurt the engine by running it at the rated rpm, these tractor engine are designed to run at that speed continuously. Noise is the only reason I run mine at a lower speed, but if I'm in a hurry or just feel like hearing the engine I'll run it at pto speed even if I'm just driving it between jobs.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

we're always reminding people... #1 use for Kubota engines is not in tractors, its refer trailers. They run for thousands of hours toggling between off and wide open throttle. Its hard to hurt one.

 

[Scott65]

Monroe, thanks, I feel better. Those are nearly exactly the numbers I've been running. I've found that heavy loading, the hydraulics seem to peak just at, or maybe even a little above the pto set point. But after a bit, things start smelling a bit different. Mine is hydrostatic drive. I suspect I'm smelling hydraulics, either loader or trans. I did notice the other day though, stick your hand under the air filter inlet when idled up, even to just 1500 or so. Man, that thing swallows some air. I live in very dusty conditions. It's hard to imagine an air filter lasting more than 10-20 hours at that velocity...

Messick, thanks for your info as well. I'm glad to know the motors are that good. As stated above, this early on my issue isn't with the motor so much as with the smell of the hydraulics getting hot. Not to mention fading lifting capacities. I noticed the power loss the first few days but assumed it was normal since any fluid will lose viscosity when heated. I wonder if kubota recommends heavier oil in hotter climates, like some autos do for engine oil?

 

[wmonroe]

What do you mean the hydraulics fade? I've never noticed this on mine and it does not sound normal. Do you have a way to measure the temp of the transmission (I've used a laser/infrared on the tranny case/filter/etc)? I can't remember the temperatures I've had now but baling hay or doing heavy loader or backhoe work I've never noticed any fading. My climate is not nearly as hot as yours so that might be some of the difference. Have you cleaned out the hydraulic fluid cooler and radiator?

 

[Scott65]

I've cleaned the radiator many times. I'm not sure where the hydraulic cooler is, unless its in the heat exchange stack with the radiator. I've just now gotten with Messicks to determine which of their parts diagrams go with my model but theres something wrong with their pdf's at the moment. So hopefully I will know soon, unless you can advise of its location.

I do have a laser thermometer so I should be able to check a few spots, but it will probably be this weekend before I can do so. I think I read somewhere that the hydro trans and FEL hydraulics are different? As well as possibly power steering? Again, without parts breakdowns and some plumbing schematics, I'm not sure of this. I lose power steering most often. Next most common is FEL. I never lose functionality, just slows down a bit it seems, and probably loses a little power for pulling a full scoop of dirt out of a pile. Trans is hard to judge, I'm not sure that I ever really lose any of its capacity. So if it is indeed a separate system, checking its temperature may not show too much. If so, I'm not sure where to check temp for the FEL hydraulics? I do know that when the power seems to fade, it is uncomfortable to touch the front lines, fittings, and cylinders. And an easy to describe point of reference: When the tractor is at a cooler operating temp, revved up to a "normal running rpm", the FEL will lift the front tires by itself. After worked hard and smelling this warm fluid smell I'm talking about, same rpm, it will no longer do so. I have to "drive into it" for the loader to lift the wheels. Same for the power steering. When cool, it works great. But after heating up, if I'm sitting still, I intermittently lose power assist until I'm rolling again.

I think it was like this all along (I bought the tractor brand new, 2 or 3ish months ago). But like I say, I live in a very dusty region. It could be that a cooler that I'm unaware of is stopped up somewhere and it has been that way since a few days after purchase. I was like a kid on Christmas morning with this thing. When the tires hit the ground off the trailer, I probably didn't shut it off until the tank was dry... So performance change could have gone unnoticed fairly easily in the beginning.

 

[wmonroe]

Have you talked to the dealer about the issue? The front loader should lift the front end off the ground whether it is hot or not. When I have my backhoe attachment on and am digging a lot the cylinders on the hoe will get hot enough it's uncomfortable to leave my hand on them but it is only about 120-130* which isn't really that hot.

 

[Scott65]

I haven't talked to them because up until now I thought it was probably somewhat normal. But now I'm thinking I should for good measure. I hope my kubota dealer is better than most other dealers I'm used to dealing with. Otherwise they won't likely run it long or hard enough, or will just dismiss it as normal whether it is or not. In another thread a couple weeks ago I got some advice on how to hook up a pressure gauge to check and possibly increase the pressure. This was one of the reasons in the back of my mind for doing this. I might check it first, just so I have some ammo in case they try to blow me off

 

[MHarryE]

My Tier 4 interim tractor is probably 50% at max throttle, 40% PTO, and 10% low speed maneuvering around, switching implements! etc. regen temp is in the 1100 - 1200 degrees by the display, heavy work can keep it between 1000 - 1100 so there is not much added heat needed to regen. Consequently the regens have been as low as 18 hours and as high as 52 hours depending on how it's being worked. The Nebraska Tractor Test states that Kubota gave them an average 13 hours between regens, something I have not seen anywhere other than in the Nebraska test. My neighbor's M109GX regens more frequently than my M135GX, possibly due to his smaller DPF but then again he uses his tractor much differently than I use mine. His spends most of its time with a disc mower or moving bales while mine is chopping haylage or tillage. My neighbor is 87 and I thought he might have problems figuring out the regen but he learned quickly.

I don't know how the trucks would do in comparison. I suspect they do not run fairly constant DPF filter temperatures near their regeneration temperatures. Also I suspect the DPF substrate is more rugged on an off-highway machine than on an on-highway truck. But at Cat I never was involved in on-highway engines. But in my involvement in mainly 75 - 175 HP engines I would likely be leery of Tier 2, avoid Tier 3, accept Tier 4 interim, and like Tier 4 final best. Learning curve. Just like I would avoid early Bosch common rail systems but have confidence in them now. Denso - they tell me Japanese diesel has the lubricity of water so they are stout as far as wear.

 

[Scott65]

Harry,
I'm sorry, I don't understand the first part of your information. What are your percentages referring to? Also, that's a pretty handy feature to monitor your temps. Either I missed something, or more likely is mine doesn't have the capability to display the dpf temps, soot loads, etc.

And you're right, trucks are much different. The temperatures fluctuate constantly. The dpf will only regen under certain conditions, usually running down the highway. As a result, my most disgruntled customers are farmers and ranchers who idle their trucks all the time, which soots up the exhaust and is rarely able to enter regeneration mode