TIER 4 Questions

[yooperdave]

I am just about ready to buy an MT342H. Would like to keep it as my retirement tractor.

Will most likely put 100 to 150 hours per year on it & always stored in a shed.

However, I am more than concerned with regens / tier 4 issues.

Current understanding is to use road grade diesel and not off-road diesel to minimize regens.
This is supposed to more than double the time between regens - but still will have lots of regens to look forward to.

How is everyone dealing with tier 4 for the long term?

TIA

Yooper Dave

 

[Cranblue]

I am just about ready to buy an MT342H. Would like to keep it as my retirement tractor.

Will most likely put 100 to 150 hours per year on it & always stored in a shed.

However, I am more than concerned with regens / tier 4 issues.

Current understanding is to use road grade diesel and not off-road diesel to minimize regens.
This is supposed to more than double the time between regens - but still will have lots of regens to look forward to.

How is everyone dealing with tier 4 for the long term?

TIA

Yooper Dave

I brought this topic up myself when I purchased off road diesel with water.I had a rental excavator it threw a fit several filters changes a mess to say the least.Service tech told me to stay with on road that it’s filtered better than off road same sulfur level. I personally run on road I do about 200 hrs a year so far my L4701 does seem to regen less than when off road was in it. Many run off road with no problems I would make sure your source moves a lot of fuel.

 

[Citydude]

Off road diesel is the same as on road with the exception of the red dye. I have close to 300 hours on my tier 4 and have ran off road in over half those hours with no noticeable difference in regens.

 

[workinonit]

Where did this myth come from. I've been operating and maintaining tractors for 50 years and I have never pumped a gallon of road diesel in anything and never had any fuel issues. The majority of the problems with fuel is how the user stores it. Not how it was when they bought it. The fuels are the same.

 

[Hay Dude]

Exactly. Off road machinery can cost hundreds of thousands even millions of dollars. FAR more than on road machinery. They want their engines protected even more so since all off road machinery is used to make a living.

 

[pokey1416]

340 hours and 7 regens in the last 17 months. All on road diesel treated with Power Service products year-round. Mix of auto throttle and PTO along with full throttle with BH. I watch the DPF % when getting into the 90’s. High throttle definitely lowers the DPF %. I’d have less regens if operated high all the time.

Regens have been painless, lasts 15-20 minutes. IMO get the tractor you need regardless of Tier IV.

 

[workinonit]

My JD has over 200 hours and hasn't regened yet. I keep the RPMs up all the time, above 1200, and most importantly I do several tasks that load my tractor up quite well. It's not uncommon to see it loaded above 75%.

 

[RjCorazza]

Agree with road vs off road diesel. I only use about 300 gallons per year, so I just buy the road diesel.
As far as dpf regens, I have gone through 12 seamless regens over the past 600 hours for an average of 50h between. They last between 12-15 minutes, and all have been while working (no parked regens).

 

[Cranblue]

Where did this myth come from. I've been operating and maintaining tractors for 50 years and I have never pumped a gallon of road diesel in anything and never had any fuel issues. The majority of the problems with fuel is how the user stores it. Not how it was when they bought it. The fuels are the same.

Didn’t claim they where different the claim was on how they are filtered !!!

 

[JCoastie]

my LS dealer recommends on road diesel, they had a few tractors with fuel issues and the only thing they could find in common was red diesel. They did some testing but nothing conclusive was noted, but they continue to recommend road diesel. Along with that, I am one of the few with regen issues. 250hrs and 16+ regens most within the last 150hrs, detail here What did you do on or to your LS Tractor today?

 

[Hay Dude]

So possibly the difference here isnt the fuel or the pump where you buy the fuel. The difference is what the end user does with it and how he handles it. Most (not all) red dyed fuel goes into a truck mounted transfer tank. It may be used right away, or could sit unused in that tank for months. It could have junk in the tank. It could be lacking an in line filter to clean the junk from it when it exits the transfer tank into the piece of equipment.
THAT is probably where red fuel gets contaminated. Of course, some unknowing or unscrupulous fuel dealers could have dirty storage tanks, but we all know to avoid “slow movers” of fuel. Buy fuel where you see brisk business of diesel trucks.

With non-dyed fuel, Id think most end users are smaller consumers and bringing plastic 5G jugs to fill at the pump. Typically these jugs are cleaner and easier to monitor for cleanliness compared to a large steel truck mounted transfer tank. All 5 gallons are typically dumped into the tank and not stored as long as a 50-100G transfer tank mounted on a truck, so less time sitting around.

 

[JCoastie]

Exactly. Off road machinery can cost hundreds of thousands even millions of dollars. FAR more than on road machinery. They want their engines protected even more so since all off road machinery is used to make a living.

Off road diesel "should" work fine in shipboard turbines too, and usually does, as does JP5. Still the fact remains that I was stuck in the ice for a week transferring fuel between tanks because we got a load of bad diesel in Boston which burned fine in the diesel engines but not in the turbines needed to break through 15 foot thick ice.

My point really is that those million dollar engines/turbines are designed to be a little more forgiving than the credit card engines in our compact tractors.

 

[Hay Dude]

Off road diesel "should" work fine in shipboard turbines too, and usually does, as does JP5. Still the fact remains that I was stuck in the ice for a week transferring fuel between tanks because we got a load of bad diesel in Boston which burned fine in the diesel engines but not in the turbines needed to break through 15 foot thick ice.

My point really is that those million dollar engines/turbines are designed to be a little more forgiving than the credit card engines in our compact tractors.

No doubt you can get a bad load of off-road.
However, you can get a bad load of on-road, too.

 

[JCoastie]

totally agree, but some engines might be able to handle it, and others won't. More expensive systems might have better filters, separators, tolerances, etc... or not.

 

[Hay Dude]

totally agree, but some engines might be able to handle it, and others won't. More expensive systems might have better filters, separators, tolerances, etc... or not.

Newer common rail diesels much more susceptible to fuel issues than old school mechanical pump diesels.
The tolerances in newer injectors are incredibly sensitive

 

[Cycledude]

My LS XR4155 currently has 165 hours and I believe it has regenerated only twice but I usually write that kind of stuff down in a little notebook carried in the tractor so I should probably check there to be sure.
Yes other than the color on and off road diesel are the same, but at least around here in Wisconsin, because of hobby farming I qualify for a permit to not pay tax on off road diesel so that’s all I ever use in my tractors and lawn mower, saves about 50 cents per gallon. I am pretty sure both on and off road diesel are filtered the exact same way.

One other thing to watch for is for winter blend for cold weather use, I don’t think it’s marked on the pumps so when it starts getting close to cold weather time I simply ask the guy that controls The fuel department if they have made the switch to cold weather fuel yet.

 

[ZetorSteve]

My MT240 has had nothing but off road diesel since it had .3 hours on it. No fuel related issues in the 200 hours I've put on it. Regens about every 50 hours or so.

 

[alexsbuddy]

There is no difference between on-road and off-road diesel except for the color which designates it's tax status. As for Tier 4 engines and regens....use a diesel fuel additive, such as Power Service Diesel Additive, with every tankful and be sure to change your pre-fuel and fuel filter more frequently. I have nearly 1200 hours on my 2016 XG3037 and have not had one issue with the regens following that advice.

 

[Avenger]

For some reason, this 'issue' keeps popping up. Likely because the fuels look different and come from different pumps. Lets take a look at the diesel pump I use to get dyed diesel. This was taken this last summer, so prices are not the same as today.

On the right is dyed red, off road use only, tax free, ultra-low sulfur at 15ppm.

On the left is on road diesel, has taxes included in the price, and is ultra-low sulfur at 15ppm.

No difference other than the color, and the price. Lets look at the owners manual for my tractor, the LS XR4145C with Tier 4 emission's BS:

As you can see, the manual specifies ultra-low diesel fuel only. Which makes sense. Nothing about the color. However, since both diesels are ultra-low, why would anyone pay the road tax for an off road vehicle? My only reasoning is that maybe you cannot find off road dyed diesel close enough to warrant the extra savings.

My tractor has only run dyed diesel. Except for maybe the fuel that came with it. I have never ran into any issues related to fuel or the emissions. In the winter time, I treat my fuel cans with Power Service anti-gel, white bottle. If the diesel is pretreated at the pump, adding this extra protection has not hurt anything thus far.

As to the complete answer, these emissions tractors run and operate just fine. So long as the owner/operator reads the manual and follows the instructions. They do operate a bit differently than pre EPA BS, like running at higher "idle" RPM at around 1500-1800. But that's really about it. Let the tractor do its regenerations, run the snot out of it while its doing them (the harder the engine is working, the hotter the exhaust temps, the better it burns the DPF out.). Your tier 4 emissions tractor will run for several years, even decades is properly maintained and operated.

 

[51allis]

I've noticed on my LS XR4046 to have less regen when i operate the engine over 2200 rpm, so I just set the throttle at that speed and avoid using the foot throttle, select the right gear for my needs (not a hydrostatic tractor) and leave it running at 2200 rpm or better and work it. When I stop I let it idle as little as possible. I got the tractor with 12 hrs on it and now have close to 500 been an awesome piece of machinery and the only issue I had was when someone borrowed it and tried to use off road (water contaminated)...had to change all filters and drain tank etc...I use on road diesel because that's what the tractor has a label for right next to the gas tank.